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Tired of negative rear camber...
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Scorpwanna
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:22 pm    Post subject: Tired of negative rear camber... Reply with quote

Could bad spring plate bushings cause negative camber?

I've replaced the trailing arms, stub axles, bearings, drums and they still go / \ and I'm tired of it. :(
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Brian
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't there shims that negate that?

Or your trailing arms are bent
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crap, I must of replaced my bent ones for some bent ones :(. That tells me that I'm pretty much always going to be stuck with them that way and tire wear will always be uneven.
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Anthonyisawsome
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well how low are you in the rear? Even with irs once lowered to a certain point I think they all get camber??
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Aussiebug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both swing axle and IRS suspension bugs will suffer from negative camber if the rear torsion bars are "rotated" to lower the suspension - swing axle bugs much more than IRS, but it will happen for both suspension styles.

So - is the rear suspension on your 71 (IRS) bug lowered?
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Brian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shouldn't be by that much, mine is raised by 3" and there is no camber issues
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Scorpwanna
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rear is not lowered. It sits about a normal height I think. Maybe a few inches low. I've been wanting to reindex it but am afraid of doing it wrong and hurting myself.

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caffeinebean
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Bug! that's not that bad compared to some rear wheels I've seen. How bout you rotate tires more often?
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you might try is to get a magnetic angle finder and stick it on a spring plate. Mount it as close to the torsion bar as you can. Then take two readings. 1) with the car setting on the ground. 2) with the rear end jacked up. Check to see if there is a difference between the two readings. I have never done this, but it may be able to tell you if your spring plates are twisting in some worn out bushings. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Tired of negative rear camber... Reply with quote

Scorpwanna wrote:
Could bad spring plate bushings cause negative camber?

I've replaced the trailing arms, stub axles, bearings, drums and they still go / \ and I'm tired of it. Sad


Yes, absolutely.

Did you not replace the bushings when you replaced the trailing arms?
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Scorpwanna
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed new trailing arm bushings when I replaced the trailing arms but I didn't take the spring plates off to re-index them and change their bushings. That I'm afraid is not one thing I'd be able to do, I'd need a professional.
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Manufacture Date: December 12 1970
Left Factory on: December 17 1970 (Emden Germany)
Received: Washington, USA
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpwanna wrote:
I installed new trailing arm bushings when I replaced the trailing arms but I didn't take the spring plates off to re-index them and change their bushings. That I'm afraid is not one thing I'd be able to do, I'd need a professional.


I did mine this past summer but it was a motherf-r to do. You can see the build in the link in my signature. I would do it again after having learned and taken my lumps this time but....I know a shop that would have done it for $500...would've been worth every penny but I like pain & suffering!! that's why I drive a 42 y/o car!!! Laughing
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Scorpwanna
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

500 DOLLARS.... *faints*... I'll never have time to figure out how to do it safely and actually have time to do it myself.
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Aussiebug
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpwanna wrote:
I installed new trailing arm bushings when I replaced the trailing arms but I didn't take the spring plates off to re-index them and change their bushings. That I'm afraid is not one thing I'd be able to do, I'd need a professional.


Scorpwanna, in the last pic (side on) above, it looks to me like your torsion bars have sagged some - the rear end is definitely lower than the front.

There is a procedure on my web site too, for resetting the suspension height. It's not particularly difficult but it will take you a few hours per side, the first time you do it. Get some new torsion bar bushes and replace them at the same time. And use real talcum powder to lubricate the torsion bar bushes - not the corn flour substitute they have in supermarkets these days - that stuff will absord water and get sticky.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to reindex and replace the bushings will fix that . if you can replace the trailing arms you could probably do a reindex.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpwanna wrote:
500 DOLLARS.... *faints*... I'll never have time to figure out how to do it safely and actually have time to do it myself.


I think it was an "insider" price. His daughter has a '65 that he built and maintains for her. I should've taken him up on it but i've yet to graduate from the School of Hard Knocks.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a lot easier if you have the right tools. These 2 and my 2.5 ton floor jack were must-haves:

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The angle finder was like $6 form HF. The one to raise the spring plate into positions was about $30.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-7047
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Scorpwanna
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does that big tool work for double spring plates?
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Left Factory on: December 17 1970 (Emden Germany)
Received: Washington, USA
Original Color: L 12 D Shantung Yellow
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even when these cars were relatively new, they suffered negative camber on the rear wheels. I remember in the early 80's getting bugs in at the frame and alignment shop I worked at with inside tire wear like your photo shows. We'd check the toe in/toe out and in most cases that measurement was fine. We liked them set to 0 toe in or out on the back wheels.

So, what we'd do to adjust the camber was (hide your kids eyes) bend the trailing arm up slightly with a chain and porta-power. Basically, we'd loop a chain around the outside's of the trailing arm and push up with the porta-power in the middle of the trailing arm. We'd warn the owners that the trailing arm would look a bit bent afterwards but it would stop them from wearing out their tires. The owners didn't care what a part under their bug looked like. They simply wanted to stop buying tires so frequently.

So, our final alignment specs would be 1/8" to 1/4" negative on the camber and 0 for toe. This cured their tire wear problem. I can't ever recall even one come back for continued tire wear after we did this work.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scorpwanna wrote:
Does that big tool work for double spring plates?


Yes. It's really not that difficult to adjust the torsion bars. If you search the forums, you can find some step by step procedures of people who have done this. A Bentley manual is useful as well.

Your pictures do show some saggy torsion bars but as I mentioned, even when these bugs were new and the rear ends did not sag, they still had negative camber that caused tire wear.
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