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Lionhart94010
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1417
Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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 Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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WD-40, Thanks for the picture of the inner structure, it is much as I imagined it, not having one to dissect :0)
_________________
Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't use a tubular model, unless everything else was caged.
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Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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WD-40
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 1178
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
| I would also not fit the Ra-Bambus bamboo parcel shelves, bamboo is tough stuff, but at shows I have seen them sell out of those things! I personally would only use the original VW (are the OEM ones by Kamei?) netted ones that crumple upon impact. |
I received a damaged 20+ year old German-made Beetle parcel tray a few months ago as part of a larger parts purchase... I had been meaning to take a picture of it for this thread. 
Apologies for the dark picture with shadows from the flash... but as you can see, it has a steel outer frame which is a strip of relatively wide but thin steel that orients the flat side toward the occupants, with plastic molded around it. It flexes pretty easily, and I'm sure it would bend out of the way with minimal force in a frontal accident. The items you have ON the tray might be of more concern than the tray itself. The webbing is nothing but molded plastic - it isn't reinforced in any way.
There's not a chance I would buy any tubular steel parcel tray... or one with a metal webbed shelf area. 
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"The new Volkswagen 1303. We've made so many improvements, they're beginning to show." |
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22448
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
Those Bus Boys reproductions look faithful to the originals. There are a few sets of the original ones for sale in the classifieds, but the prices are quite scary!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search
I have an original pair in my garage with the brackets, but with several tears in the net, I will have to clean them up and fit them I think. Anyone know a source for the netting that looks like the original stuff?
Edit: Just now answered my own question, one of those ads advises baby playpen mesh. |
That mesh can be got at any fabric store like Michael's in several colors.
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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RocketSurgeon
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 442
Location: Roseville, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I saw the trays in question at a show a little bit ago. They are very well constructed. But I immediately had the same concern as everyone else. The steel is a pretty thick gauge and it will definitely hurt when it hits your knees at 60mph.
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69 Westy |
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Those Bus Boys reproductions look faithful to the originals. There are a few sets of the original ones for sale in the classifieds, but the prices are quite scary!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?...ton=Search
I have an original pair in my garage with the brackets, but with several tears in the net, I will have to clean them up and fit them I think. Anyone know a source for the netting that looks like the original stuff?
Edit: Just now answered my own question, one of those ads advises baby playpen mesh.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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Lionhart94010
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1417
Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| matt94gt wrote: |
| chimneyfish wrote: |
I would also not fit the Ra-Bambus bamboo parcel shelves, bamboo is tough stuff, but at shows I have seen them sell out of those things! I personally would only use the original VW (are the OEM ones by Kamei?) netted ones that crumple upon impact.
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Know where I can get these? I searched Kamei with no luck. Link by chance? |
Check out the link posted by matt94gt, you may want to call Bus Boys and ask them if the tubing will collapse similarly to the OEM Kamei ones…
_________________
Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
This is a great example of "Just because you can does not mean you should."  |
Look...someone stole the wheels of that bus and left it sitting in the dirt......
To each their own....but I never have gotten the logic or attractiveness of lowering to silly levels like that.
I don't think the safari window mod is any more or less safe than the skinny little A pillars a split window had in the first place. Neither is going to keep the roof off the dash if you roll it. Ray |
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jtauxe 
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 5780
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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This is a great example of "Just because you can does not mean you should."
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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matt94gt
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2014
Posts: 245
Location: Victoria BC, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| chimneyfish wrote: |
I would also not fit the Ra-Bambus bamboo parcel shelves, bamboo is tough stuff, but at shows I have seen them sell out of those things! I personally would only use the original VW (are the OEM ones by Kamei?) netted ones that crumple upon impact.
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Know where I can get these? I searched Kamei with no luck. Link by chance?
_________________
72' Sunroof Bus - Kansas Beige
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-21257.htm
Build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7257521 |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting the pictures. like the rest of you...over the years I have spent a LOT of time in VW specific junkyards. I have seen quite a few wrecked busses.
About half looked like the flower bus that hit the truck...about half looked better than the picture you sent of Colin's bus.....and a portion definitely looked like they fell over and rolled....and actually those held up better than the impact crashes.
I think that range of what I saw and what I know of the structure of these things from working in and around a few....is what makes me say they are not that safe.
Let me qualify that statement a little better before we get carried away.
Wildthings statement a few posts back that he thinks buses may be safer than even a type 4 vehicle...got me thinking back to my two totaled type 4's and other VW wrecks I have known.
I actually doubt that.....because there are more active chassis safety mechanisms in the type 4 because it was built to be that way from the beginning (it was aimed at the US market)....and had systems that were already advertised to not have been in any other ACVW...until the vanagon....but its a fair point that the vehicle itself (the bus) would probably be more survivable....because the bus has more weight, more room around occupants, higher seating position, fuel tank in the rear etc. Lots of advantages.
To add too that our ACVW cars that have no real modern safety additions (even though my 412 is a crumple zone AND crash cell cabin car with shearable downward gas tank mounts....and 6 feet of space between driver and the bumper).......its all still crude and yet I am surprised just how well both cars held up in accidents.
I think a lot of what I have seen in really ugly bus wrecks...has to do with the weight and height of thee modern vehicles they are coming up against....trucks...SUV's... etc.
The context of the safety of buses and ACVW's in general has changed....ass the driving environment and the other vehicles around them have changed.
In 1975-79...I think all of our ACVW's...had better safety ratings with respect to what they had to contend with. I dont think that is true now. Ray |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| airkooledchris wrote: |
Wasn't there an aftermarket front crash bar built for bays at one point?
Im sure it would end up doing more damage than assistance, but I seem to recall a roll cage looking thing that would run in front of your kick panels and then down through the floor to the frame. NOT one of those bars for passengers to rest their feet on either.... |
yes - we had on in the 1971. It had two hefty braces on the outside that went back into the platform, and the bar was heavy gauge. It would be the equal of having a roo bar on the inside instead of the outside.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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airkooledchris
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2005
Posts: 2710
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't there an aftermarket front crash bar built for bays at one point?
Im sure it would end up doing more damage than assistance, but I seem to recall a roll cage looking thing that would run in front of your kick panels and then down through the floor to the frame. NOT one of those bars for passengers to rest their feet on either.... |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Malokin Martin wrote: |
Rofl. People that sleep better at night thinking some late model triangular frame reinforcement will make them safer, take a close look at that photo again. That SUV is going to go straight through your 1973^ windshield.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Lionhart94010
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2005
Posts: 1417
Location: SF Bay Area / Silicon Valley / So Cal
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| littlebuggie wrote: |
| Lionhart94010 wrote: |
It is in this sort of accident that I think perhaps a Hurst type Roo Bar |
Lionhart, so if I have a roo bar on my bay, a kid walks infront of my bus, he dies because of the roo bar, but my bus and legs are fine.. Should I give out warnings to everyone on the road, "warning my roo bar might kill you" is that my fault he died because he walked infront of me?
I'm going to get a fire suit for daily driving too, we've all seen a burned Vw.. Next I need a helmet. Shit I need a mouth piece..
What if.... |
Littlebuggie, I’m not as smart as Ray I don’t see your point…
What if the moon squashed me while in my bus, should I stop looking at it, stop driving my bus because of it, have my estate sue the person I bought the Roo Bar from, not bought the Roo Bar so the moon would not fall on me…
HO! I see you mean a Roo Bar could be unfriendly to a pedestrian compared to the rounded stock bumper and somewhat smooth soft front panels of the bus… my bus would be much more damaged but the kid might live, I see your point…
We all seem to agree there are few ways to make our beloved T2’s much more safe, making them less safe for the occupants is a really bad idea…
Kidding aside, Point taken about the Roo Bar, however I’m an alert driver and don’t drive fast in places kids or pedestrians are likely to be, my breaks are in tip top shape, and the likelihood of me hitting a pedestrian is extremely low as my buses are not DailyDrivers and my DD’s are known to have some of the most pedestrian friendly front ends, while in my T2’s I’m more worried about inattentive/reckless drivers that may plow into me ;0)
Over the years, I have read on thesamba that a Hurst Roo Bar have help protect splity occupants legs in moderate crashes so IMO, they may be an option to make our bay’s a bit more safe for the occupants, especially for 68-72 without the updated bumper design, and perhaps a double over the shoulder seat belt could distribute the deceleration more evenly in case of a severe front ender…
chimneyfish,
Your bring up a good point about the glove box, I bought one of those plastic glove box liners thinking it’s better than the stock cardboard one, I now see that it’s not! Again, those Darn Germans engineers knew what they where doing…
_________________
Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 2015 GSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC, 72 KG GT that now lives in Australia, 12 JSW TDI, 2015 GSW TDI, 2023 Tiguan
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm |
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chimneyfish
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 881
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:18 am Post subject: |
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I would also not fit the Ra-Bambus bamboo parcel shelves, bamboo is tough stuff, but at shows I have seen them sell out of those things! I personally would only use the original VW (are the OEM ones by Kamei?) netted ones that crumple upon impact.
There was a comment earlier on wooden door cards, I would also question the safety of "heavy duty plastic" replacements for the 'cardboard' glovebox inner - and new heavy duty plastic kick panels. I think the originals were made of cardboard for a reason, and it was not to cut costs.
_________________
1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury) |
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Joey
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005
Posts: 5366
Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Like 95% of the people out there, ChrisFred should of done his homework before stating a Smart Car is unsafe. I have an '06 cdi and I hear it all the time... "That car can't be safe"... 
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Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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camit34
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 1567
Location: Commerce City CO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
| ChrisFred wrote: |
| I am not stating they are a 5 star safety vehicle of today, but anything is better than some of the cars on the road today. (Smart car, Lotus Elise, etc.) |
That might be one of the stupidest things I've ever read. |
This is why I've come to hate this fucking place. You're the worst.
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In search of a Vanagon
1971 Westy (SOLD)
1971 Deluxe (SOLD)
1967 Freedom Camper (SOLD) |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| But.....dont ever try to convince me that a vw bus is safe in any respect |
The bus is quite safe in many respects.
-No engine up front to compromise the integrity of the crumple zone or to smash your legs, and no hood to capitate you.
-Fairly vertical steering column
-A goodly distance between the windshield and your head, and between the dash and your head
Sitting high up and above the fairly tough front suspension gives you some protection from a side impact.
The danger in a bus is that there is little strength above the bumper level so the crumple zone is overridden when you collide with a pickup truck or most any SUV, as shown in the recent photo. FWIW, I would certainly rather be in a late bus than most any other vehicle from the same era if I were in a crash, this would include the Type 4. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21512
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Jake Raby wrote: |
Lots of things in life are all about how lucky you are.. If your day, its going to be your day..
That said, I haven't driven a "stock VW" in over 22 years and most of them make as much power from a single cylinder as an entire stock engine does..
Somehow, I am still here... And a bay window bus will go 130 MPH, too... Takes longer to stop than it does to accelerate to the speed! |
Like I said.....they arent safe.....but nothkng worth doing is. Dont let it stop you!.......
But.....dont ever try to convince me that a vw bus is safe in any respect
Oddly... I have totalled two VW type 4 cars....a 72 411 and a 73 412. The 411 I was broadsided by a cutless 442. Had I not jumped to the right at the last second.....I would be toast. But it held up well nonetheless. The second one....I broadsided an econoline van at 35 mph when a traffic light in Atlanta failed. ....I was 6" off the seat when the enertial reel "clacked" and arrested me. Bruised every rib i owned. The crumple zome effect was interesting. Drove that car for 6 weeks...still...before I found a donor body in Stone Mountain. Mostly luck.
Ray |
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