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soissisc Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2007 Posts: 634 Location: Western Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I am self employed and use / own a seat of solidworks. I am very busy right now with work (why am I replying to a thread on the Samba, again?) but would be more than happy to help out the cause here when time permits.
For my work I use solidworks for metal stamping tool and die design. We do not get into any complex lofted surfaces or anything. _________________ Mark
68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up) |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21512 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
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jtauxe wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Rubber parts will need to be cast or molded. There is a difference in casting, pressure casting and basic molding and injection molding.
What your part requires...or what you are willing to get away with depends on the type of rubber and how long you want it to last.
The more industrial/or resilient the rubber type....the harder it is to cast/mold properly...in general. When you start getting into the hard synthetic rubber resins....you need to have either good well polished molds than can handle heat and pressure...or ablative molds that you can melt or dissolve away to demold a part. Ray |
So, what do you think would be an appropriate path forward for reproducing a rubber lock seal? It would have to be very tough, I'd think. What does West Coast Metric do, for example, to reproduce their seals?
I could contact WCM, but I'm going to guess that they have little interest due to the small market for this particular part. |
What does this seal look like? If WCM's seals are a black rubber (neoprene, Buna-Nitrile)...and they are not made from existing original molds....they are probably pressure resin cast in short run CNC milled metal molds (aluminum etc). I could not see them selling enough parts for enough $$ to warrant the $$$$$ needed for a real heted injection mold.
"Repops" like this also can have life span problems because a low or no pressure casting in a short run mold is generally not heated, uses a slightly different resin blend than a true injection molded part and lacks the operating temperature required to give some of the "self vulcanizing" properties to the rubber part.
For something like the gasket you are describing with little torsional load...sounds like a flat type of gasket? and out of sunlight and weather....a low pressure, non heated casting/molding of this part should be fine. Its when you get into a rubber part that has load or is outdoor like a door seal....that it gets to be important how its molded.
Otherwise...for something like that it could also be probably be urethane cast (lifespan about 5 years before it starts hardening)....or platinum cured silcones could work very well. Ray |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5780 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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The storage compartment door lock seal looks somewhat like and serves the same function as the engine compartment door lock seal, or the door handle seals. So, it is outside, in the weather, and exposed to sun and all.
WCM makes the door handle seals and engine cmpt door seal (and license plate light seals and other stuff like that) and I have used them for years with little trouble. In time, they do get brittle, but then, so do the original VW ones. Especially here in New Mexico where the UV is rough on seals and interiors.
Here are two photos of an intact seal in the gallery. In both photos, it is the one on the right:
_________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21512 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ah....yes. Same issues as door handle seals. Over the years I have seen them made of the original rubber....then plastics like polypropylene and polyethylene blends which stay flat for ages but seal poorly because they lack elasticity....to relatively modern TPE/TPV (thermoplastic elastomer/Thermoplastic vulcanizate ) blends like Santoprene ...which is polypropylene resin packed with EPDM particles.
EPDM is what is used for windshield rubber and brake cylinder cups. There are over 120 variations of Santoprene....so you have to carefully select what you need for your application.
Santoprene or a variant of it is most probably what the better parts are made of.
Its much less difficult to process than typical rubber. It works like a fairly low pressure PP plastic with lower temps and less demolding issue. It an also be re-melted.
For a thin low relief part like that gasket its possible it could also be vacuum formed from sheet in something like santoprene. Ray |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1732 Location: Maine
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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i posted this in the other 3d printer thread but, i own a full aluminum/bronze foundry, a solidworks 2015 license ,a 3d printer and a patternmaker(i dont technically own the patternmaker but he is always here ). so if there is anything at all that needs to be cast in ,plastic, resin etc or metal. we can handle it, i have always wanted to make stuff for the cars but i really didnt know what woudl be the best piece to start with any suggestions? i like this thread. _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1732 Location: Maine
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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it woudl be super easy to make inside sliding door handles in aluminum, i could also nickel plate them to boot! maybe ill start with that... _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21512 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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ihatedanrhoads wrote: |
it woudl be super easy to make inside sliding door handles in aluminum, i could also nickel plate them to boot! maybe ill start with that... |
See thats what im talking, about! Personally speaking making that little slider lock with a bonded rubber outer coating is a lot more trouble than its worth....fixtures to hold the inner metal core and a heated outer mold for an end product that, will be killer....but never really look like the original.....without, real injection molding. Costs more than the numbers could pay for.
But one of polished or platex metal.....awesome! |
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Bala Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2003 Posts: 2613 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: |
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ihatedanrhoads wrote: |
it woudl be super easy to make inside sliding door handles in aluminum, i could also nickel plate them to boot! maybe ill start with that... |
I would be interested in that. Mainly for the one on the rear of the door.
_________________ 1976 Westy
1966 Beetle |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1732 Location: Maine
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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i have my patternmaker building me a pattern and core box set so i can sand cast them in aluminum and then i can plate them. i will post pictures in another thread and keep you guys posted, im stoked! no more broken handle! i am going to just cast the square adapter into the actual casting.... _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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collinVW32 Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2012 Posts: 186 Location: Wichita, Kansas
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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As far as the rubber seals go I know it is possible for a 3d printer to print rubber but I have no idea how well it would hold up. What I'm really hoping our school gets is a scanner so we can stick a piece in and it will scan it then replicate it out of whatever material the 3d printer will print. That would come in really handy. I am also taking a class next year which will get me more experience in solid works and programs like that. _________________ My '71 Bay Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=513427&highlight=
The only peace sign I will ever have on my bus is one that is upside down. |
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outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1732 Location: Maine
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:59 am Post subject: |
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yes there are a number of different filament materials like rubber,and also wood! its crazy some of the stuff the filament guys are coming out with, but the fact remains that the tech is still limited in its practical applications. i look forward to the day i can print a metal piece that isnt a million dollars to buy the machine, and the printable area is larger than a bus! on a side note the sls tech has produced the hardest alloys we have seen yet which is a side affect of sintering in general,that is cool! _________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
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SixStringMadMan Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2011 Posts: 263 Location: Roseville, CA
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Wonder if you could find material that would work for printing out the red warning light at the bottom of the cluster, between the speedo and the clock. _________________ 1978 Kombi
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-10020.htm |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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SixStringMadMan wrote: |
Wonder if you could find material that would work for printing out the red warning light at the bottom of the cluster, between the speedo and the clock. |
Will this one work?
http://www.thethingshop.com/prodinfo.asp?number=113919232L
Tcash |
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Ginger Rogers Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014 Posts: 29 Location: Suffolk, U.K.
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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Tcash for a good find.
I've asked them if they can supply it in clear plastic as my 1973 Westy has it that way. |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ginger Rogers wrote: |
Thanks Tcash for a good find.
I've asked them if they can supply it in clear plastic as my 1973 Westy has it that way. |
I have a clear plastic one, but I've never been able to figure out where it came from. Any ideas? Every '73 I've seen has a printed B lens. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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RocketSurgeon Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2005 Posts: 442 Location: Roseville, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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I've got two more. Heater cable clamp and brake fluid reservoir tube clamp.
_________________ 69 Westy |
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SixStringMadMan Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2011 Posts: 263 Location: Roseville, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have no idea if it would work in my 78 or not. Can anyone confirm if its the correct size? _________________ 1978 Kombi
http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-10020.htm |
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DanielMartinelli Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2015 Posts: 1 Location: Zürich
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Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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SixStringMadMan wrote: |
I have no idea if it would work in my 78 or not. Can anyone confirm if its the correct size? |
This is exactly what I am looking for, I'll buy it
Could get hold of the dimensions if this goes on the 'to print' list |
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DougB Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2007 Posts: 1076 Location: Falls Church, Virginia, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: What to 3d print? |
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I've been printing Westfalia sink faucet bases (for the faucet with the city water lever and rotary electric switch on the '76 - '79 campers) and tonight I've been printing 11-tooth gears for the speedo's odometer drive shaft. So far so good!
- Doug _________________ '75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife |
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Heathintexas Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2011 Posts: 135 Location: Berlin Germany
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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jtauxe wrote: |
Heathintexas wrote: |
skid wrote: |
What about the little white lock on the inside of the sliding door?
Mine is busted and I'm sure I'm not the only one! |
Same here! Does anyone know the part number for that? |
x3
Rather than a part number, what we need for 3D printing is an STL file. I've not worked with these, but am interested in learning. I have access to SolidWorks through our high school robotics program. Is there freely-available software to make these shapes?
Here is a similar knob for split buses. Any idea if it would fit?
http://www.bustoration.com/Knob-Inside-Cargo-Door-Lock-With-Pin-Bus-50-67Ea-IVORY_p_2131.html
*********************************************
Also - another shape needed:
There is a rubber seal that goes between the single cab storage compartment lock and the door. It is similar to the engine compartment and other lock seals, but not interchangeable. I recently came across one of these in very good condition, and this specimen could be used to make others somehow, I am sure.
How do we take an existing small part (like the storage compartment lock seal) and reproduce it? Can it be done in rubber like the original, or would we have to settle for hard plastic?
Thoughts? |
Finally made it!
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2000535
_________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582117 |
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