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Dear beetle people - charging problem.
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-Zodiac-
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Dear beetle people - charging problem. Reply with quote

I'm currently the semi proud owner of a 1973 karmann ghia. I just replaced the volt regulator and generator( polarized both) and my genorator light comes on and when I take the plus side of the battery of it dies. I've straight wired the generator to the regulator, still nothing. I took the top of the regulator off and pushed on the points and the generator light went off, I'm going to the auto store to test it or replace it if that's the problem?

Here is my thread on the ghia forum http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7412701#7412701
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richardc
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't polarize the regulator,if you tried you may have damaged it. Rich
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-Zodiac-
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some People say you do, some say you don't. The instructions said to so I just went for it just because. It didn't mess anything up the first time I replaced it.
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Aussiebug
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see a copy of those instructions telling you to polarize a voltage regulator. That's total rubbish.

A GENERATOR which has been left unused for a long time (weeks or months) will loose the residual magnetism in the soft iron core so there is no spinning magnet effect to get it working when you start the engine. Polarizing it just re-creates a magnetic field in the windings so it will start to work again.

There is NOTHING inside a voltage regulator which holds a residual magnetic field, so there is NOTHING which needs polarizing.

Alternators never need polarizing as they use a different metal core which does not hold a magnetic field anyway - they use the tiny current through the dash Alt light to start the alternator working.

To polarize a generator, remove the fan belt. Df is grounded to the case of the generator and D+ is connected for a few seconds only to the + side of the battery. If the gen does not spin, it's faulty and needs either an auto electrician to look at it, or replacement.

www.vw-resource.com/generator.html gives you the low-down on checking generator, voltage regulator and battery, with just a cheap digital multimeter.
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-Zodiac-
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I'll take a pic for you,Either way I'm thinking that's not my problem. And before Any one else has something to say about polarization just know that in the future I'll be sure to not do it on the regulator. I know how to polarize a generator and I've already looked at that page.
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-Zodiac-
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the picture. If you have anything to say about this please do not. I am already well aware to not do this. I'm posting it up here for shits and giggles.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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richardc
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now you have to start over in the diagnoses, first thing is to go to Rob and Daves website and read how to full field generator (what that does is isolates generator from rest of system and test to see if it's ok...let us know how that goes and will go from there.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already did the electric motor test,it spins. I'll look that up in a bit.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richardc wrote:
now you have to start over in the diagnoses, first thing is to go to Rob and Daves website and read how to full field generator (what that does is isolates generator from rest of system and test to see if it's ok...let us know how that goes and will go from there.


-Zodiac- wrote:
I already did the electric motor test,it spins.

That's not the test he's referring to.

Here is the link to Rob & Dave's page:
http://www.vw-resource.com/generator.html#maximum

You could also follow Speedy Jim's page:
http://www.speedyjim.net/htm/gen.htm

In both examples you run the engine and force the generator (you have a generator, right?) to max output. You measure the voltage output from the D+ terminal and should get a reading above 30v (+35v @3000rpms is what is mentioned). If you generator can output this voltage it is probably good. That basically leave your VR as suspect.



FYI, the instructions for polarizing the VR is basically jumpering "around the VR" and applying battery voltage from the B+ terminal to the D+ terminal on the generator.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes yes.. I have a generator, not a alternator. I'm aware of the difference.

I'll try this test when I'm back around the ghia this weekend.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting that pic Zodiac

ashman40 wrote:

FYI, the instructions for polarizing the VR is basically jumpering "around the VR" and applying battery voltage from the B+ terminal to the D+ terminal on the generator.


Yes - those instructions are not actually trying to polarise the regulator, they are just using the regulator connections to polarise the generator, so it's a little confusing.

And as Ashman says it's not as good a test as then separating the gen from the rest of the electrical system and watching the voltage swing up to 30+ volts (17+ on a 6v generator), as indicated on our pages and Speedy Jim's site. THAT tells you the gen is OK for sure.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much appreciated. I'm thinking that the problem is the voltage regulator or at least I hope so. I'll find out this weekend for sure.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay replaced the VR and tested the generator, it reads -0.15 what does this mean, bad generator ?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What were the results of the generator max output test? The suggestion was to test the generator and if it was good then suspect the vr.

On your vr ,confirm which wires do you have connected to which terminal?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats not a voltage reading at the battery,where are you getting that and what settings are you using on the DVOM?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did it using the test above, connections from VR to gen are good, and correct. Wires in the Harness look good but I can straight wire it again. I used a multimeter set at 20dcv
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you said you polarized gen. and getting that type of reading on D+ with DF grounded then you have a problem with the generator. How i would do it (to eliminate any wiring problem) i would do your test at generator itself.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought i have is with the engine off, put a wrench on generator and turn....see if it turns engine or belt slips.(belt glazed...slipping...loose) replace belt if it slips
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just took the gen off a while ago, tried to motor it and it didn't work. I guess I'll be replacing it
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Zodiac- wrote:
Okay replaced the VR and tested the generator, it reads -0.15 what does this mean, bad generator ?

So all wires to the generator disconnected.
Jumper wire between DF and ground.
VM set to read up to 20VDC range.
Black COM probe to ground and red probe to D+ post.
Start engine and you took a voltage reading between the D+ stud and ground and you voltage reading was -0.15. This was at idle and 3000rpm?
If so, your generator is bad. You could try polarizing it once more. With the belt off it should spin. If it doesn't spin, it is another sign the generator is bad.
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