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oxsign
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 607
Location: Sanford, FL
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: Wire harness difference |
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Is there a major difference between a Ghia rear harness and a T3?? I as only because I have a new Ghia harness here and my Fasty needs one. If there was a way to make it work, that would be great, lol.
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1971 Squareback, fully bagged, 1776.
Build thread here.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm guessing that the lengths would be too short from an upright to a pancake engine.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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oxsign
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 607
Location: Sanford, FL
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thread the harness thru the firewall and try it. 
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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oxsign
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 607
Location: Sanford, FL
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| oxsign wrote: |
| Dumb question..... Would it wire up at the fuse block the same? |
I think so, but a quick of the wiring diagrams found in the tech section of this fine site (upper right corner of the page) will tell you for sure. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| oxsign wrote: |
| Dumb question..... Would it wire up at the fuse block the same? |
I think so, but a quick of the wiring diagrams found in the tech section of this fine site (upper right corner of the page) will tell you for sure. |
quick search
quick look at
quick perusal
quick referral
quick view
quick review
  
_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| oxsign wrote: |
| Dumb question..... Would it wire up at the fuse block the same? |
I think so, but a quick of the wiring diagrams found in the tech section of this fine site (upper right corner of the page) will tell you for sure. |
quick search
quick look at
quick perusal
quick referral
quick view
quick review
|
Quick left to the solar plexus? 
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| grandpa pete wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| oxsign wrote: |
| Dumb question..... Would it wire up at the fuse block the same? |
I think so, but a quick of the wiring diagrams found in the tech section of this fine site (upper right corner of the page) will tell you for sure. |
quick search
quick look at
quick perusal
quick referral
quick view
quick review
|
I'll take "quick look at" for a 100 Monte. But any of those answers would have worked. And with the stupid cloud flares, just getting a post in is close enough.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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If your stock harness is trashed & has a lot of unnecessary FI wires I would jerk it all out and install the new Ghia harness. Use the '67 Type 3 wiring diagram for carburetors. If you have to extend a couple generator wires that is a small price for getting your car running!
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| grandpa pete wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| oxsign wrote: |
| Dumb question..... Would it wire up at the fuse block the same? |
I think so, but a quick of the wiring diagrams found in the tech section of this fine site (upper right corner of the page) will tell you for sure. |
quick search
quick look at
quick perusal
quick referral
quick view
quick review
|
Quick left to the solar plexus? |
TOO funny !!!!
my wife came out of the kitchen to find out what so funny !!!
THANKS tram
You guys aren't used to her " Damn sarcastic Bostonian "
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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oxsign
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 607
Location: Sanford, FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| If your stock harness is trashed & has a lot of unnecessary FI wires I would jerk it all out and install the new Ghia harness. Use the '67 Type 3 wiring diagram for carburetors. If you have to extend a couple generator wires that is a small price for getting your car running! |
it has a bunch of splices from the PO and hacked from the removals of the FI. It's for that reason I was think of doing it. Thanks for the advise of looking at the '67 wiring diagram. The few wires that may need to be extended won't be a problem with some solder and heat shrink.
I searched before making this post (to the best wording I could) and didn't find any info on someone actually doing this. Sorry.
_________________
1971 Squareback, fully bagged, 1776.
Build thread here.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:20 am Post subject: |
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You have to tear out all the old wiring before you can lay out/install the new harness. Plug in the engine/tail lights first and work your way back to the fuse box/head lights?
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| oxsign wrote: |
Thanks for the advise of looking at the '67 wiring diagram. The few wires that may need to be extended won't be a problem with some solder and heat shrink.
I searched before making this post (to the best wording I could) and didn't find any info on someone actually doing this. Sorry. |
If you have a late 71, then you can actually almost have it fit right. I only say that, as VW changed how they routed the wiring harness, which actually shortened it up some. My son and I used a bug harness in his 65 Roadster (topless Square). For it, we had to extend the left tail light wires, as they were too short. I believe you're going to run into something similar using the Ghia harness, due to the way it runs in the engine compartment, and has a connector point in it for the left tail light. What you might want to do, is use the t-3 wire set up to the starter (versus the ghia harness wire), as it's a more shorter and direct run (you won't have the added resistance of the long harness wire). That's entirely up to you though, but it might help in the long run. Remember, 71's use a 1 year only ignition switch, so anything you can do to help it live is a plus.
If, however you have an early 71 (built before April 71), then you're probably going to need to blast a hole in the wall under/behind the rear seat for the harness to go to the engine bay. I only say that, as the wiring harness runs on the outside of the body (behind the rear fender) on those cars. Another thing to keep in mind is that you're going to need to relocate the Voltage Regulator to the engine compartment, as that's where your wires are going to be for it.
Personally, I'd feed the harness into the car, and start from the fuse box and work my way back. That way IF you need to lengthen any wires, it won't be the entire harness getting lengthened.
I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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oxsign
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 607
Location: Sanford, FL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| oxsign wrote: |
Thanks for the advise of looking at the '67 wiring diagram. The few wires that may need to be extended won't be a problem with some solder and heat shrink.
I searched before making this post (to the best wording I could) and didn't find any info on someone actually doing this. Sorry. |
If you have a late 71, then you can actually almost have it fit right. I only say that, as VW changed how they routed the wiring harness, which actually shortened it up some. My son and I used a bug harness in his 65 Roadster (topless Square). For it, we had to extend the left tail light wires, as they were too short. I believe you're going to run into something similar using the Ghia harness, due to the way it runs in the engine compartment, and has a connector point in it for the left tail light. What you might want to do, is use the t-3 wire set up to the starter (versus the ghia harness wire), as it's a more shorter and direct run (you won't have the added resistance of the long harness wire). That's entirely up to you though, but it might help in the long run. Remember, 71's use a 1 year only ignition switch, so anything you can do to help it live is a plus.
If, however you have an early 71 (built before April 71), then you're probably going to need to blast a hole in the wall under/behind the rear seat for the harness to go to the engine bay. I only say that, as the wiring harness runs on the outside of the body (behind the rear fender) on those cars. Another thing to keep in mind is that you're going to need to relocate the Voltage Regulator to the engine compartment, as that's where your wires are going to be for it.
Personally, I'd feed the harness into the car, and start from the fuse box and work my way back. That way IF you need to lengthen any wires, it won't be the entire harness getting lengthened.
I hope this helps. |
That does help, thank you. The factory harness does run along the outside (behind the fender) on mine. So that would make it and earlier '71? Does that make a difference with the ignition as well? This harness shouldn't involve the ignition (I think) either way though. My plan is to start from the fuses back. I do agree that it would be easier to extend 2-3 wires vs the entire harness to the fuses.
_________________
1971 Squareback, fully bagged, 1776.
Build thread here.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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grandpa pete
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008
Posts: 6426
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22431
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| oxsign wrote: |
| That does help, thank you. The factory harness does run along the outside (behind the fender) on mine. So that would make it and earlier '71? Does that make a difference with the ignition as well? This harness shouldn't involve the ignition (I think) either way though. My plan is to start from the fuses back. I do agree that it would be easier to extend 2-3 wires vs the entire harness to the fuses. |
Yes, you have an "early" 71. And yes, part of the wiring harness does involve the ignition switch wiring (power runs to the ignition switch first on 71 and later cars, rather than the headlight switch of the 70 and earlier cars).
Like I said before, the wiring harness of a Ghia runs inside the car, then enters the engine compartment. That means the harness will be shorter than the type 3 harness you're removing.
This might actually be a case where getting a 67 style type 3 rear wiring harness might make more sense, as the length and colors will be more correct. But, it'll be extra cost to do that.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
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