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brodyjdavis Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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I recently (around march of this year) had a shop in Seattle replace my entire exhaust system with what I was told was stainless steel, with a price to match. I have only exposed the van to standard highway driving, no salt or anything like that.
My question to the more seasoned; Is appearance of the exhaust in the photos normal for less than a year of break down on a new stainless steel exhaust system? or is this something I should get in touch with the shop about. They were a pretty upstanding shop and had great customer service. Just left scratching my head on this one...
_________________ 1984 Westy | www.brodyjdavis.com |
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Bassyaks Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010 Posts: 1137 Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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Depends on what grade of stainless they used. However it looks good, I would question the hardware (bolts) as some of those look a little advanced.
Stainless doesn't stay shiny forever. |
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newfisher Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012 Posts: 1764 Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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Looks like Stainless to me with mild steel flanges and hardware. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22640 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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newfisher wrote: |
Looks like Stainless to me with mild steel flanges and hardware. |
If you sail, you learn that stainless steel, isn't.
Above assessment is correct _________________ .ssS! |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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Your want concours grade appearance stainless exhaust?
Polish it once a week.
Heat will do this to a Duesenberg, Cord, Benz exhaust system too if it isn't kept up.
Get the polishing wheel out and start polishing if you are entering a concours d'elegance car show with the Van-- _________________ T.K. |
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brodyjdavis Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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not sure on the grade of stainless, but would it be a bad idea to take a few bits off and polish them up? would it just end up rusting back up? I grew up building chromed out hot rods and definitely lean towards chrome/polished stainless when I can. _________________ 1984 Westy | www.brodyjdavis.com |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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The stainless doesn't look rusted up--a little heat discolored perhaps.
A little 0000 steel wool dipped in Blue Magic, and a little manual labor would have the exhaust system brightened up in no time. _________________ T.K. |
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icolquhoun Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2015 Posts: 92 Location: NJ
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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409SS will rust due to it's iron content
304SS will not rust but will corrode depending on environment
as mentioned above, you have a SS exhaust (could be either grade although it does look 400 series to me) with mild steel flanges
SS 3 bolt flanges usually cost 2-3X that of mild steel, so a lot of people cut corners on the flanges, but mild steel is much more resistant to cracking if not designed properly
Last edited by icolquhoun on Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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The flanges are mild steel--no doubt--
Clean them up with scotch brite pads on your angle die grinder & season them in peanut oil--they'll stop rusting up. _________________ T.K. |
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brodyjdavis Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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interesting, i wonder if i could find some SS flanges and hardware somewhere? Would it be worth it to hit the pipes with a sander and work my way up to ~2000grit and then buff it to a polished stainless shine? _________________ 1984 Westy | www.brodyjdavis.com |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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What's wrong with 0000 steel wool and some Blue Magic?
Use 3-M heavy duty rubbing compound & a buffer if you think it needs more.
Where's the show at--?
McCormick Place???
You'll be doing this more that you could ever possibly imagine if just for grins you want it to be show quality.
You want to cut off the mild steel flanges, and have stainless flanges welded back on ?
You clean them steel ones up and season them in the peanut oil yet?
The stainless flanges are brittle and won't take much to crack them at the unions--especially with the exhaust heat.
This is a real bad move-- _________________ T.K. |
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Christopher Schimke Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005 Posts: 5390 Location: PNW
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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304 is a common stainless used for exhaust because it is comparatively cheap. However, it WILL eventually rust, especially with the heat cycles the exhaust system sees. The saltier and more moist the environment, the fast it will rust. 304 is only "fair" as far corrosion resistance.
321 is another grade of stainless that less common for use on production exhaust systems due to the higher cost, but it is more corrosion resistant compared to 304. It is also used due to its greater resistance to cracking. It is much more stable throughout the heat cycles which reduces the amount that it work hardens when heated and cooled repeatedly.
Corrosion resistance of 304 (or any other grade) stainless is also determined by the quality of the material. Cheap tubing coming out of China will corrode much quicker than more expensive, higher quality material coming out of American (and other) plants, even though they are both sold as "304 stainless steel". _________________ "Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]
Last edited by Christopher Schimke on Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:32 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Yondermtn Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2007 Posts: 609 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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Is that the Gowesty exhaust system?
As far as I know Gowesty and Vanistan/RMW both make a SS system.
Yours looks more like the Gowesty system.
This is from their description:
"Materials note: This GoWesty stainless steel exhaust system will not stay shiny and aesthetically perfect—but it will last, and we value longevity over aesthetics. For the complete story on stainless steel metallurgy, please click here."
More reading here: http://www.gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=1565 _________________ 1977 Westfalia 2.0FI 4spd
1990 Multivan 2.1 Auto |
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brodyjdavis Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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Terry Kay wrote: |
What's wrong with 0000 steel wool and some Blue Magic?
Use 3-M heavy duty rubbing compound & a buffer if you think it needs more.
Where's the show at--?
McCormick Place???
You'll be doing this more that you could ever possibly imagine if just for grins you want it to be show quality.
You want to cut off the mild steel flanges, and have stainless flanges welded back on ?
You clean them steel ones up and season them in the peanut oil yet?
The stainless flanges are brittle and won't take much to crack them at the unions--especially with the exhaust heat.
This is a real bad move-- |
Thanks for your answer, this is basically what I was looking for, I grew up building show cars with my dad and we always had mirror finish chromed out exhaust systems. This is my first time fixing up one all by myself and no plans on showing it, just want a seasonal vehicle I can be proud of. and i dont want to do something that is essentially a huge waste of time and unmaintainable. _________________ 1984 Westy | www.brodyjdavis.com |
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newfisher Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012 Posts: 1764 Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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From what I have experienced building tube header systems on non vw platforms, the higher grade stainless that looks shiney and has no iron in it is very brittle after several heat cycles a d cracks. The cheaper stuff that lasts but has iron in it and looks like poo seems to remain softer and doesnt fail as quickly when ran hard. Pick your poison |
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Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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<<i dont want to do something that is essentially a huge waste of time and unmaintainable>>
If you want to kill some time while it's still warm out today--prior to the big drop in temps for the next week or so--go for it.
It won't take long for it to return to the exact way it is now.
I would soak the flanges in peanut oil so it they won't get any worse than they are. _________________ T.K. |
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otiswesty Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2006 Posts: 1730 Location: Portland
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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I pretty much just want to reinforce what is said above. The mild steel flanges are superior to stainless steel as they will not crack. You should be using original steel exhaust hangers also, the stainless will hold up to that much vibration, mine broke. Having the full set up ceramic coated will increase longevity of the steel and retain heat and shine in/on the exhaust. For bolts, do not use stainless, they will stretch and you will end up with rattling bolts and exhaust leaks. Ask me how I know...
Copper plated hardened steel bolts would be best with a deformed thread lock nut. _________________ 1978 Sage Green P22 Westfalia
1989 T3 Syncro Single cab
Just a regular guy |
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brodyjdavis Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2014 Posts: 89 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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Interesting, I'm learning a lot here. _________________ 1984 Westy | www.brodyjdavis.com |
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icolquhoun Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2015 Posts: 92 Location: NJ
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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To echo the others, cutting off your flanges and replacing them with stainless will not only be super pricey, but not even close to worth it. It's have some superficial rust on one hand, likely have cracking on the other hand, pick your poison
Last edited by icolquhoun on Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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raoul mitgong Samba Member
Joined: July 05, 2009 Posts: 1338 Location: Denver, CO
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stainless Exhaust? Not so sure... |
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304 and any stainless steel does have iron (the element, aka Fe) in it. It is usually the largest component. The Nickel and Chomium and other elements in various amounts are what determine the type of alloy.
-d _________________ 84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim)) |
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