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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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Have one of these carbs on my 1600 DP and live in the mountains ~6,000 feet elevation. Proper jets for this size engine, typically drive down to ~1,000 elevation in the surrounding region to do business and run errands. Installed/tuned it per Empi's instructions (paper/website).
Have 3 apparent problems:
1) On my morning cold starts, I pump it 3x and it starts just fine, except that I need to push the accelerator down a bit to run it at a slightly higher RPM than idle to keep from stalling, until it warms up. Does not appear that electric choke will run the idle higher until warmed up like my 28 on my 40HP does.
2) If the engine stops during the cold start, takes around 10 minutes to re-start, as it smells like it's flooded. Over time, the electric choke will rotate to open.
3) Many times while fully warmed up and driving around, will get a hesitation when I push on the pedal, similar to when a dump tube is clogged on a 28 carb.
Any suggestions on fixing these problems, or is this "standard" operations for this carb?
BTW, works great when warmed up, except for the occasional hesitation...
Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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67 views and no responses?
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I went ahead and called EMPI, and talked to Bud at extension 103. He's the resident EMPI carb expert. Very helpful and answered all of my questions, with patience.
Here is the advice he gave me regarding the EMPI 38 on my 1600DP, and other carbs in general:
1) Hesitation likely caused by using a 009, which will only advance as the engine speed increases, causing hesitation when pulse of rich mixture from dump tube(s) passes through. Says that a vacuum-advance distributor will advance immediately when dump tubes squirt, due to change in vacuum when pedal is pushed, preventing hesitation. Should also save fuel $. He added that back in the day track racers wanted to go all-out and the mechanical-advanced (009) was born. People, including myself, bought into the cleaner look (no vacuum canister) and supposed high performance for street - not race - applications. Interestingly, my neighbor owns a 1964 356C and says that Porsches did not come with vacuum-advance distributors...
2) Connect distributor vacuum tubing to the nipple on one of the intake manifolds that mounts directly to the head (ideally), as vacuum response is best at this location. Second choice would be on the carb below (?) the venturi, and then last choice on the carb above (?) the venturi (for the newer smog-regulation carbs).
3) If still have hesitation, may have one or more idle jets plugged. Simply remove both idle jets, clean them of any debris, and then blow compressed air through the corresponding idle ports using a computer-type duster with the little red tube. Apparently, compressed air from a shop compressor is too much and might cause internal damage (?).
4) Install a fuel pressure regulator after the fuel pump and set to 3PSI maximum. He runs 1.5-2PSI on his set-ups. He said that the standard mechanical fuel pumps tend to run from ~6-12PSI, which can damage the float needle and other parts of a carb due to over-pressure. Limiting the pressure to the noted values will not reduce fuel flow, but should increase the life-span of the carb, saving $.
Best,
Catahoula Lou
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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vdubjim
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 684
Location: okc
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:53 am Post subject: |
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You complained about views, but then never report back on the situation.  |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: |
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VDUBJIM:
Yeah, I complained about views and lack of responses because I had hoped that I would get some help, as I assume that I'm not the only one with EMPI 38 EGAS problems on this website and was somewhat new to the carb at the time. Whenever I can help others out with their questions, which unfortunately is not that often, I at least take the time to respond, which is the intention of the forums.
I posted the update to help others out with EMPI's information. Interesting that you decided to flame me instead of simply regarding the information that I posted for Samba members, including you...
WRT to "never" reporting back on the situation, I called EMPI and posted the information just YESTERDAY. Is that not reporting back on the situation?
I am currently looking for a vacuum-advance distributor and a pressure regulator as a follow-up to EMPI's recommendations. I have a full-time job managing 2 businesses and I could not buy, install, and test the parts on your schedule. Sorry, but you'll have to be patient until I get this done and I will then post an update regarding EMPI's recommendations, which I was going to do anyway...
Sigh...
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26788
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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| catahoula lou wrote: |
| Have one of these carbs on my 1600 DP and live in the mountains ~6,000 feet elevation. |
Sorry for the lack of responses, but I do not think there is anything helpful to say.
In the past I have said something like "maybe these things perform well at lower elevations and warmer climates but here they just don't work" and that's just being polite anyhow, I think they just suck everywhere. |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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No need to apologize. I'm good with troubleshooting Solex 34s on down, not so much with the high-tech (to me) carbs. Perhaps it is a function of elevation, which I hope it's not. Plan to drive down the hill into the big city today, where I'll have a chance to do the old stop and go traffic, and check out the hesitation, before I buy any more parts.
Will update as I go step by step...
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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| catahoula lou wrote: |
| 1) On my morning cold starts, I pump it 3x and it starts just fine, except that I need to push the accelerator down a bit to run it at a slightly higher RPM than idle to keep from stalling, until it warms up. Does not appear that electric choke will run the idle higher until warmed up like my 28 on my 40HP does. |
There should be an adjustment screw for the high idle buried between the choke heater and the carb body, I seem to recall it pointing to ~ 7:00 when looking square on at the end of the choke heater very near the idle jet holder. Turning it CW should raise the high idle.
| Quote: |
| 2) If the engine stops during the cold start, takes around 10 minutes to re-start, as it smells like it's flooded. Over time, the electric choke will rotate to open. |
Adjust the choke heater for less choke, IIRC it turns opposite to the way the choke plate closes on those so move it a few mm in whatever the direction is that makes the plates open a little more.
| Quote: |
| 3) Many times while fully warmed up and driving around, will get a hesitation when I push on the pedal, similar to when a dump tube is clogged on a 28 carb. |
You'll have to expirement with the acellerator pump adjustment and low speed jetting for that, of course you have the preheat tubes under the manifold hooked up and working, right?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Busdaddy:
Just returned to my thread this afternoon. Thanks for the info. I think I solved the problem this AM by raising the idle a bit, in that I have no hesitation at all now. I suppose having too low idle (your first suggestion) was the cause. Will re-check per your first suggestion to make sure.
Currently have choke completely backed off and unplugged (no choke per se). Did this as my neighbor with a 1964 356C says that Porsche carbs of that era did not have chokes on them at all, so I figured, "why not?".
However, given that I've done just one test run (to my cabin) so far, will revisit your other two suggestions as I drive it some more, to avoid other potential problems.
Will report back after a few more drives...
Once again, thanks for the input!
Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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SUCCESS!
Finally bought a SVDA distributor at last week's Hot VWs Drag Day in Irwindale CA for $20. Adjusted/filed points and installed onto engine. Next, jury-rigged the small diameter vacuum tubing that goes onto the distributor to fit into the larger diameter fuel tubing that fits onto the LHS end casting nipple to provide variable vacuum.
Just drove home to my cabin in the mountains (~4,500-ft elevation gain).
Engine performed perfectly, very smooth with no hesitations, etc. Also, ran stronger than with the 009.
Think I'll keep this set-up for good, hold onto the 009 just in case.
Will report back in a couple weeks or so on the fuel savings that Bud (the EMPI carb guy) told me I should expect from going from a 009 to a SVDA (see my 2/20/2015, 7:37 AM posting above).
Now to figure out that odd thump in the rear I get when I accelerate hard from coasting in the higher gears (deck lid is tight)...
Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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bugaddiction71
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2013
Posts: 20
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:23 pm Post subject: this damn carb |
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| catahoula lou what jets are you running!!! |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Just running the factory set-up, which can be found at the following link:
http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2014/71.html
Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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bugaddiction71
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2013
Posts: 20
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| hell yeah thank you! do you have any problems turning left(high g) maybe cutting out on you or something like that??? |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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No cutting out on hard turns, which includes long fast turns in my Ghia when daily driving in the mountains.
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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JWP80
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2012
Posts: 400
Location: First Capitol, OK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| bugaddiction71 wrote: |
| hell yeah thank you! do you have any problems turning left(high g) maybe cutting out on you or something like that??? |
Did you ever double check the float setting? I know that was a recommendation in another thread.
_________________
I have a German look bug, it was built in Germany and looks like it.
VW Beetle Top Gear tested to be the best car to cross the African continent....
'74 Super Beetle Autox/Track Car/Street Car build |
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JWP80
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2012
Posts: 400
Location: First Capitol, OK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| catahoula lou wrote: |
SUCCESS!
Finally bought a SVDA distributor at last week's Hot VWs Drag Day in Irwindale CA for $20. Adjusted/filed points and installed onto engine. Next, jury-rigged the small diameter vacuum tubing that goes onto the distributor to fit into the larger diameter fuel tubing that fits onto the LHS end casting nipple to provide variable vacuum.
Just drove home to my cabin in the mountains (~4,500-ft elevation gain).
Engine performed perfectly, very smooth with no hesitations, etc. Also, ran stronger than with the 009.
Think I'll keep this set-up for good, hold onto the 009 just in case.
Will report back in a couple weeks or so on the fuel savings that Bud (the EMPI carb guy) told me I should expect from going from a 009 to a SVDA (see my 2/20/2015, 7:37 AM posting above).
Now to figure out that odd thump in the rear I get when I accelerate hard from coasting in the higher gears (deck lid is tight)...
Best,
Thom |
How's it been doing in the mean time. I just ordered one of these and it will be going on a car that will see street use as well as autocross and maybe track use.
_________________
I have a German look bug, it was built in Germany and looks like it.
VW Beetle Top Gear tested to be the best car to cross the African continent....
'74 Super Beetle Autox/Track Car/Street Car build |
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Buggy Brian
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Yulee, FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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So, now that it's a few years later, I'd love to hear more about how it's been doing, if you still have it. CIP1 had a great sale on them, and my local shop recommends them, and I'm sick of dual carbs. Going to install one soon, and wanted to hear about longevity.
Thanks!
_________________
-(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis by Joescoolcustoms
-(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
-Original Home built buggy that started all. I learned to drive in it back in 1985.
Manx Club Member # 4436
Check out my Loretta here: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=3365Manx
Scarlett is getting a Makeover! http://manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983 |
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catahoula lou
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008
Posts: 594
Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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Well, I went back to a 009 for some reason that I can't remember. Still get some hesitation, only when it's cold.
My go-to mechanic says there is a certain way to eliminate the hesitation altogether, but I don't have time to take it in.
Otherwise, a very effective carb. I remember they had to add another return spring to get it down to idle, here's a photo (it's the horizontal one attached to the vertical support bar):
Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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Buggy Brian
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2006
Posts: 308
Location: Yulee, FL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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| catahoula lou wrote: |
Well, I went back to a 009 for some reason that I can't remember. Still get some hesitation, only when it's cold.
My go-to mechanic says there is a certain way to eliminate the hesitation altogether, but I don't have time to take it in.
Otherwise, a very effective carb. I remember they had to add another return spring to get it down to idle, here's a photo (it's the horizontal one attached to the vertical support bar):
Best,
Thom |
Sorry to hear you still have the hesitation, but I do appreciate the response. Going to install mine today, and see how it does. I've been hearing a lot of great things from a few friends that swear by them. I'm so tired of messing with duals.
_________________
-(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis by Joescoolcustoms
-(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
-Original Home built buggy that started all. I learned to drive in it back in 1985.
Manx Club Member # 4436
Check out my Loretta here: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=3365Manx
Scarlett is getting a Makeover! http://manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983 |
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jinx758
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2014
Posts: 698
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Empi 38 EGAS choke and hesitation |
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Just my experiences :
I had a German PICT3-4 with 009 on my 1776. After a complete carb rebuilding I had huge air leaks so I went with an EGAS38mm & Khultek 034 clone. Took about an hour to swap intake & carb but I took the fan shroud out with engine in car. I mistakenly over adjusted choke at first - over turned choke after setting to about 4mm from venturi wall when closing. This resulted in having to wait for choke spring to overcome the tightness before actually moving the choke plate. Worst 2 weeks of driving ... acting like an 009 due to bogging down. No issues since BARELY putting tension on spring when closing 3prong (screw) adjustment pot. Since then, I start car & by the time I get seat belt on & release Ebrake I can drive away with no bucking, bogging, or gas pedal stress.
My 034 clone likes a "loose" point gap. Dwell & rpm set with meter not by ear and air, fuel @ lean best idle. I have had no drivability issues since. Starts hot or cold and runs cool ... very minimal pinging from engine tins after shut off. I run a decklid without vents but do have a tennis ball opening, all tin in place , & all seals actually sealed. I only run premium gas as well.
If I step on the gas, I'm pushed back into my seat in all gears & now I don't have any issues - it's been humming along great for at least 11mos now with no adjustments since except for a complete tune up which (of course) meant fiddling with valves, points, & mixture but not the choke. I also lubed all moving parts of carb with fishing reel oil after cleaning.
Your results may vary.
I have driven completely stock bugs & they give a wonderful experience as that is a well engineered system but I chose to go a different route.
Pictures in my profile
Best of luck ... jinx
PS - Finally figured out why the brake pedal went to floor after sitting for 2 weeks till I could afford a new battery (had a dead cell in 3yr old battery). The nipple for the brake reservoir feeding the rears developed a crack. I had bled brakes till I was frustrated and finally saw the fluid trail inside the trunk at dusk with my drop light.
Insert NUCLEAR FACEPALM with a loud " DOH" here. Lol
_________________
" It's not valuable unless you learn something from an experience. " Henry Ford
It's not unlike the same difference
You can't push a rope
VALVES (cold)
POINTS
TIMING
CARB (fully warmed engine)
SCRAPE ALL GROUNDS
My Craigslist rescued 100 footer :
1971 Standard Bug
1776cc dual port
034 distributor
38mm EGAS Carburetor |
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