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Automatic and Manual identification
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BerightFastback
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

Hello Thesamba world.

I purchased a 69 manual fastback with a 70s engine out of a squareback. The engine did not come attached to the car. I'm trying to figure out with some difficulty if this engine is actually for an automatic transmission.

Please help me figure out what I actually have?

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manuel identification Reply with quote

Several tells:
1) Does the engine have a flywheel (stick) or flex plate (auto) attached?
2) If not, look for the cam plug. Typically, the plug is installed convex on stick engines, concave on autos.
3) Look at the lower left side of the case where it mates to the tranny... autos have a cutout so you can get to the flex plate bolts.
4) If still FI, look for the AAR-- typically the autos have an electric version, the sticks non-electric.
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manuel identification Reply with quote

Phil covered the differences but they can be easily changed to work both ways.
The brown VOLKSWAGEN SERVICE MANUAL Type 3 1968-1973 by Bentley is our Bible here for owning a Type 3!
Buy a new/used 1974 edition with the color wiring diagrams.
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Geothon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manuel identification Reply with quote

What about vacuum hook up to the auto trans modulator? Did all FI manifolds have them or only on auto?
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manuel identification Reply with quote

Manifolds (IADs) changed hose connections in the '70s so there isn't a single answer. For example, the late models pulled the vacuum for the MPS on top, but older ones did from the bottom. He said "70s engine" so we can't be sure what he has.
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BerightFastback
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manuel identification Reply with quote

Thank you guys so much. This gives me something to go on. There is a vacuum hook up, and that is what made me wonder what this engine really is.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

Post up some engine photos... top, front, IAD area... we can probably tell.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

Yup, with pics we can probably tell you the year of the engine, and whether it's an AT or MT engine.
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BerightFastback
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

Thanks, everybody, that was really helpful. From what I understand this is a manual set-up. The motor is out of a 1970 type 3, I believe. The person who I bought it from said it's from a square back. The engine number confirms it #U035541. Please let me know if I'm wrong.

This will be my first car over-haul and I have a lot to learn. To make this even more difficult the engine was not installed in the car so I'm not exactly sure what is missing or what modifications were made. For example, instead of the VW generator, there is a Denso regulator in its place. But that is easily replaced. If the engine was still in the car and intact then it would be much easier to know what goes where and how to replace it.

I do have the Bentley manual and it helps but it would be great to have color pictures of all the parts and where they are located.

Anyway, here are some pictures of what Im working with.


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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

As most of you know, I converted to the dark side and installed a Type 4 engine. What I was looking for to determine between an auto, or manual, was evidence of the kick down switch in the throttle, and a case cut out for tightening the torque converter bolts. My old eyes didn't see either, so I say manual.

Did you hear the engine run? If not, and you have the tools and skills, I'd strip it down, and check it out. There is nothing worse than going through the work of setting up an engine for your car, then finding out it has a bad rod or worse.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

Judging from the throttle dashpot and the 2-cap breather box, it looks to have some later hardware on it, maybe from '72 or '73. But it has a pre-'72 air cleaner.

It looks pretty complete, and if the alternator is working, stick with it... it charges better at idle and probably has higher capacity.

Strange location for the fuel pump! It goes at the front of the car, but appears to have the ground wire connected at the engine. Makes me think he ran it on a bench... a good sign. And you have a spare pump now!

Overall, it looks to have been modified/cobbled together, but done fairly well, like putting caps on unused hose connections, clamps on the heater hose connections, and such.

Nothing to worry about for now, it can all be made to work, just sleuthing what it is. If you need substitute parts to make it right, there are several GREAT sources here so you will not get stuck.

Type 3 engines area little trickier than Bugs as far as all the stuff hung on the basically identical block. Lots of little tricks, so post photos as you go along.

Maybe start a new thread for this, so the title reflects "first engine rebuild" or something like that.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

I have to agree with Multi69s, in that it was an MT engine going off the lack of a cut out at the rear of the case. It also has the mechanical version of the AAR found on MT cars.
That being said, it looks like a miss match of type 3 parts. Like KTPhil pointed out, the throttle dashpot, and 2 cap breather box, but the engine tin is for a 71 and earlier due to no head vent tubes and cut outs for them.
If the alt works, keep it, as quite a few people are going to them for more stable voltage, and t-3 generators are getting harder to find (good ones). It does look like an older conversion that Toby pioneered over 15+ years ago.
It does look mostly complete, and has a complete early style exhaust and heater set up on it, which is worth a few bucks on it's own, and like Phil pointed, it even comes with a spare fuel pump (it might be good, or a bad pump though).
Not a bad score at all. You'll have to reset end play though, but that's not a big deal. Let us know how it runs after you finish it up and install it.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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BerightFastback
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PostPosted: Yesterday 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Automatic and Manual identification Reply with quote

Awesome. Thank you, guys! I will definitely start a new thread for this build.

I'm sure I will have plenty of questions, but hopefully, it will go smoothly.

Really grateful for the help!
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