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richparker
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
richparker wrote:
It is 18* this morning. I checked the temp of the sump with the IR gun, 14*.


Nice! How did it start?


It was slow starting, fired up on the third hit of the key. You could really hear the starter draging. Usually it starts on the first attempt. I was talking to my builder and he said the same as madmike, Kats is the brand I want to get. However they don't make one for a ACVW anymore. I'm gonna hope the builder finds one on his stash of I can't. After work I'm gonna hit Walmart and look for a inexpensive heating pad and try that until I can find a Kats heater.
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ToolBox
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
richparker wrote:
It is 18* this morning. I checked the temp of the sump with the IR gun, 14*.


Nice! How did it start?


It was slow starting, fired up on the third hit of the key. You could really hear the starter draging. Usually it starts on the first attempt. I was talking to my builder and he said the same as madmike, Kats is the brand I want to get. However they don't make one for a ACVW anymore. I'm gonna hope the builder finds one on his stash of I can't. After work I'm gonna hit Walmart and look for a inexpensive heating pad and try that until I can find a Kats heater.


Kats VW-15 on eBay
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
As part of my regular job I operate two turbine engine driven generators. These are each roughly the size of a railroad car and each have oil tanks that hold several hundred gallons of oil. Each unit has an internal oil tank heater which keeps the oil at a constant 80 F. Keeping the oil warm prevents water accumulation and damage. I'd say that for people who plan to moth ball their buses over the winter it would be a great idea to keep the engine warm.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Man...when are you going to start working on some REAL equipment..... Wink

Very cool! Ray
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:
richparker wrote:
asiab3 wrote:
richparker wrote:
It is 18* this morning. I checked the temp of the sump with the IR gun, 14*.


Nice! How did it start?


It was slow starting, fired up on the third hit of the key. You could really hear the starter draging. Usually it starts on the first attempt. I was talking to my builder and he said the same as madmike, Kats is the brand I want to get. However they don't make one for a ACVW anymore. I'm gonna hope the builder finds one on his stash of I can't. After work I'm gonna hit Walmart and look for a inexpensive heating pad and try that until I can find a Kats heater.


Kats VW-15 on eBay


Kats makes nice stuff for the price.
http://www.fivestarmanufacturing.com/kat_s

A couple of words of warning. Not everything is perfect....and you are attaching a 110 volt heating element to your CAR. If there is a short or burn through....car can be up in smoke.....so just test what you buy first.

Also think about the wattage. Dont get crazy.

I have a Kats 300 watt magnetic block heater just like this one:

http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/Kat's-300-Watt-120V-Magnetic-Heater/0000000047506?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping%2Bsearch&utm_campaign=google%2Bproduct%20search&gslfah&gclid=CMiFhL3hhMICFQwSMgodXgEAOA

i dont use it for the car...I use it to heat up my solvent washer tank from the outside Wink .....it goes from sub freezing to about 75-80F in about an hour.
But....you need to then turn the heater off or cycle it....or else it will boil the solvent. Thats dangerous.

Most of these heaters have no thermostat. They will keep adding heat as long as your engine can absorb it. That can get dangerous in an enclosed garage.

The model in the link above also has a small defect. When the heater is left on constant overnight or over a few days where there is not enough outside cold to keep the unit cool....the plastic cover has melted and distorted...and there is an open access to the wires.

Several have noted shocks or shorts in the reviews. So test what you buy and set it up carefully.

By the way....its not JUST the oil and having the right oil that causes drag in cold weather....its extremely tight contraction of the engine case and drag from the bearings. keeping the engine warm is always a good thing in cold weather. Easier all around.

I have a 2012 golf. It runs 0w-40 synthetic only....and when its either in single digits or beo 0 here in Iowa....it always drags the starter...and my battery is perfect. it did this from the day I bought it in this weather.

Having the correct oil...makes only part of the difference in weather thats cold. Metal contracts when cold. Ray
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Abscate
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
As part of my regular job I operate two turbine engine driven generators. These are each roughly the size of a railroad car and each have oil tanks that hold several hundred gallons of oil. Each unit has an internal oil tank heater which keeps the oil at a constant 80 F. Keeping the oil warm prevents water accumulation and damage. I'd say that for people who plan to moth ball their buses over the winter it would be a great idea to keep the engine warm.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think you will find that keeping the oil in those generators at constant T has a lot more to do with efficiency than damage.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will find that keeping the oil in those generators at constant T has a lot more to do with efficiency than damage.

The generator has its own space heater to keep the windings warm and moisture out.
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richparker
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input and for posting links. I don't have a lot of time to surf the the net at work. I was thinking I would plug it in 1 to 1.5 hours before I needed to leave for work. I don't think it would need to be on all night.
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Brian
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just get one of them timers you use for Xmas lights.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
just get one of them timers you use for Xmas lights.



Yes...those will work. Just be sure it has wattage capacity to operate with the wattage of the heater you buy PLUS the length of extension cord.

Not that I think anyone would need a heater over about 200-300 watts.....but for instance if you have ever tried to find a 110, volt timer to work for a coffee maker in an office....which can pull 1200 to 1800 watts.....its quite an expensive timer. Ray
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richparker
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToolBox wrote:

Kats VW-15 on eBay


Thanks for the link ToolBox!

That was the unit I was looking for, so I bought it. I'll post how it works after a few weeks. On the way home I did buy a heating pad to use for the next week. Gonna be cold :❄️❄️❄️!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be nice to have maybe a 5 Watt heater for engine mothballing. You don't really need to keep the engine warm, but just get it above the dew point of the surrounding air.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Oil sump heater Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks,
Rich P.


I looked at that heater and it looks terribly inefficient. It appears that the whole arm is part of the heating element and the heating element inside the case is not tight against the sump. The kats vw 15 appears to be what I purchased about twenty five years ago. I haven't had a need for it that much, but it is there, usable, and a better design. The cord has a plug at the element end and a replacement cord can be found at Radio Shack if you forget to zip tie. I think you'll be happy with the one you bought on ebay, but it appears that they are almost unavailable.

Aloha
tp
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich, good thing I didn't buy it. I was very close to doing it too Wink

I am extremely curious to see how it mounts. I want to find one to have in dire cases. so I'm watching this Popcorn
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range.


Sounds better than installing something of unknown quality inside your sump. You can also remove it seasonally.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range.


Have you had any experience using them on Type 4 engines? I thinking about getting a magnetic 200w but I'm not sure if it will be capable of heating up my engine.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sonofamitch wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range.


Have you had any experience using them on Type 4 engines? I thinking about getting a magnetic 200w but I'm not sure if it will be capable of heating up my engine.


I have, they will buy your another 15F or so of easy starting. You aren't going to have a nice hot engine with heat poring out the defroster vents or anything like that though. They are pretty vulnerable when attached to the sump plate, so daily removal would be in order.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
It would be nice to have maybe a 5 Watt heater for engine mothballing. You don't really need to keep the engine warm, but just get it above the dew point of the surrounding air.



Ooooh.....crap! I never thought of that. Storing transmissions has the same issues.

Thanks for the idea. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
sonofamitch wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range.


Have you had any experience using them on Type 4 engines? I thinking about getting a magnetic 200w but I'm not sure if it will be capable of heating up my engine.


I have, they will buy your another 15F or so of easy starting. You aren't going to have a nice hot engine with heat poring out the defroster vents or anything like that though. They are pretty vulnerable when attached to the sump plate, so daily removal would be in order.


I have a slightly vintage one that is still available that works for type 1 or type 4.
It bolts to two of the case bolts on the centerline and has its hot spot right around the strainer lid area. I have not tried it yet. Post a pic later. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Brian wrote:
just get one of them timers you use for Xmas lights.



Yes...those will work. Just be sure it has wattage capacity to operate with the wattage of the heater you buy PLUS the length of extension cord.

Not that I think anyone would need a heater over about 200-300 watts.....but for instance if you have ever tried to find a 110, volt timer to work for a coffee maker in an office....which can pull 1200 to 1800 watts.....its quite an expensive timer. Ray


Ray, Is there a spicific timer you would suggest? I don't know anything about them. I'll be useing a 25' extension cord. Thanks.
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