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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: |
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asiab3 wrote: |
richparker wrote: |
It is 18* this morning. I checked the temp of the sump with the IR gun, 14*. |
Nice! How did it start? |
It was slow starting, fired up on the third hit of the key. You could really hear the starter draging. Usually it starts on the first attempt. I was talking to my builder and he said the same as madmike, Kats is the brand I want to get. However they don't make one for a ACVW anymore. I'm gonna hope the builder finds one on his stash of I can't. After work I'm gonna hit Walmart and look for a inexpensive heating pad and try that until I can find a Kats heater. _________________ __________
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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richparker wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
richparker wrote: |
It is 18* this morning. I checked the temp of the sump with the IR gun, 14*. |
Nice! How did it start? |
It was slow starting, fired up on the third hit of the key. You could really hear the starter draging. Usually it starts on the first attempt. I was talking to my builder and he said the same as madmike, Kats is the brand I want to get. However they don't make one for a ACVW anymore. I'm gonna hope the builder finds one on his stash of I can't. After work I'm gonna hit Walmart and look for a inexpensive heating pad and try that until I can find a Kats heater. |
Kats VW-15 on eBay |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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aeromech wrote: |
As part of my regular job I operate two turbine engine driven generators. These are each roughly the size of a railroad car and each have oil tanks that hold several hundred gallons of oil. Each unit has an internal oil tank heater which keeps the oil at a constant 80 F. Keeping the oil warm prevents water accumulation and damage. I'd say that for people who plan to moth ball their buses over the winter it would be a great idea to keep the engine warm.
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Man...when are you going to start working on some REAL equipment.....
Very cool! Ray |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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ToolBox wrote: |
richparker wrote: |
asiab3 wrote: |
richparker wrote: |
It is 18* this morning. I checked the temp of the sump with the IR gun, 14*. |
Nice! How did it start? |
It was slow starting, fired up on the third hit of the key. You could really hear the starter draging. Usually it starts on the first attempt. I was talking to my builder and he said the same as madmike, Kats is the brand I want to get. However they don't make one for a ACVW anymore. I'm gonna hope the builder finds one on his stash of I can't. After work I'm gonna hit Walmart and look for a inexpensive heating pad and try that until I can find a Kats heater. |
Kats VW-15 on eBay |
Kats makes nice stuff for the price.
http://www.fivestarmanufacturing.com/kat_s
A couple of words of warning. Not everything is perfect....and you are attaching a 110 volt heating element to your CAR. If there is a short or burn through....car can be up in smoke.....so just test what you buy first.
Also think about the wattage. Dont get crazy.
I have a Kats 300 watt magnetic block heater just like this one:
http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/Kat's-300-Watt-120V-Magnetic-Heater/0000000047506?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping%2Bsearch&utm_campaign=google%2Bproduct%20search&gslfah&gclid=CMiFhL3hhMICFQwSMgodXgEAOA
i dont use it for the car...I use it to heat up my solvent washer tank from the outside .....it goes from sub freezing to about 75-80F in about an hour.
But....you need to then turn the heater off or cycle it....or else it will boil the solvent. Thats dangerous.
Most of these heaters have no thermostat. They will keep adding heat as long as your engine can absorb it. That can get dangerous in an enclosed garage.
The model in the link above also has a small defect. When the heater is left on constant overnight or over a few days where there is not enough outside cold to keep the unit cool....the plastic cover has melted and distorted...and there is an open access to the wires.
Several have noted shocks or shorts in the reviews. So test what you buy and set it up carefully.
By the way....its not JUST the oil and having the right oil that causes drag in cold weather....its extremely tight contraction of the engine case and drag from the bearings. keeping the engine warm is always a good thing in cold weather. Easier all around.
I have a 2012 golf. It runs 0w-40 synthetic only....and when its either in single digits or beo 0 here in Iowa....it always drags the starter...and my battery is perfect. it did this from the day I bought it in this weather.
Having the correct oil...makes only part of the difference in weather thats cold. Metal contracts when cold. Ray |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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aeromech wrote: |
As part of my regular job I operate two turbine engine driven generators. These are each roughly the size of a railroad car and each have oil tanks that hold several hundred gallons of oil. Each unit has an internal oil tank heater which keeps the oil at a constant 80 F. Keeping the oil warm prevents water accumulation and damage. I'd say that for people who plan to moth ball their buses over the winter it would be a great idea to keep the engine warm.
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I think you will find that keeping the oil in those generators at constant T has a lot more to do with efficiency than damage. _________________ .ssS! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think you will find that keeping the oil in those generators at constant T has a lot more to do with efficiency than damage.
The generator has its own space heater to keep the windings warm and moisture out. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the input and for posting links. I don't have a lot of time to surf the the net at work. I was thinking I would plug it in 1 to 1.5 hours before I needed to leave for work. I don't think it would need to be on all night. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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just get one of them timers you use for Xmas lights. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Brian wrote: |
just get one of them timers you use for Xmas lights. |
Yes...those will work. Just be sure it has wattage capacity to operate with the wattage of the heater you buy PLUS the length of extension cord.
Not that I think anyone would need a heater over about 200-300 watts.....but for instance if you have ever tried to find a 110, volt timer to work for a coffee maker in an office....which can pull 1200 to 1800 watts.....its quite an expensive timer. Ray |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link ToolBox!
That was the unit I was looking for, so I bought it. I'll post how it works after a few weeks. On the way home I did buy a heating pad to use for the next week. Gonna be cold :❄️❄️❄️! _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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It would be nice to have maybe a 5 Watt heater for engine mothballing. You don't really need to keep the engine warm, but just get it above the dew point of the surrounding air. |
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Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Oil sump heater |
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richparker wrote: |
...
Thanks,
Rich P. |
I looked at that heater and it looks terribly inefficient. It appears that the whole arm is part of the heating element and the heating element inside the case is not tight against the sump. The kats vw 15 appears to be what I purchased about twenty five years ago. I haven't had a need for it that much, but it is there, usable, and a better design. The cord has a plug at the element end and a replacement cord can be found at Radio Shack if you forget to zip tie. I think you'll be happy with the one you bought on ebay, but it appears that they are almost unavailable.
Aloha
tp |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rich, good thing I didn't buy it. I was very close to doing it too
I am extremely curious to see how it mounts. I want to find one to have in dire cases. so I'm watching this _________________ Wash your hands
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: |
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I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range. |
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merlinj79 Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2008 Posts: 379 Location: SOCAL
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range. |
Sounds better than installing something of unknown quality inside your sump. You can also remove it seasonally. _________________ Rick
"Pumpkin II"
Stock 2L FI '77 Westy
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sonofamitch Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2012 Posts: 325 Location: Evergreen, CO
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range. |
Have you had any experience using them on Type 4 engines? I thinking about getting a magnetic 200w but I'm not sure if it will be capable of heating up my engine. _________________ '77 Westy 2.0L FI
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568454&highlight= |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50352
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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sonofamitch wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range. |
Have you had any experience using them on Type 4 engines? I thinking about getting a magnetic 200w but I'm not sure if it will be capable of heating up my engine. |
I have, they will buy your another 15°F or so of easy starting. You aren't going to have a nice hot engine with heat poring out the defroster vents or anything like that though. They are pretty vulnerable when attached to the sump plate, so daily removal would be in order. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
It would be nice to have maybe a 5 Watt heater for engine mothballing. You don't really need to keep the engine warm, but just get it above the dew point of the surrounding air. |
Ooooh.....crap! I never thought of that. Storing transmissions has the same issues.
Thanks for the idea. Ray |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21520 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wildthings wrote: |
sonofamitch wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
I have used magnetic block heaters over the years on various engines with good success. They will even work on a Type 1 engine with a steel sump plate. They run in the 200-300 Watt range. |
Have you had any experience using them on Type 4 engines? I thinking about getting a magnetic 200w but I'm not sure if it will be capable of heating up my engine. |
I have, they will buy your another 15°F or so of easy starting. You aren't going to have a nice hot engine with heat poring out the defroster vents or anything like that though. They are pretty vulnerable when attached to the sump plate, so daily removal would be in order. |
I have a slightly vintage one that is still available that works for type 1 or type 4.
It bolts to two of the case bolts on the centerline and has its hot spot right around the strainer lid area. I have not tried it yet. Post a pic later. Ray |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6983 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Brian wrote: |
just get one of them timers you use for Xmas lights. |
Yes...those will work. Just be sure it has wattage capacity to operate with the wattage of the heater you buy PLUS the length of extension cord.
Not that I think anyone would need a heater over about 200-300 watts.....but for instance if you have ever tried to find a 110, volt timer to work for a coffee maker in an office....which can pull 1200 to 1800 watts.....its quite an expensive timer. Ray |
Ray, Is there a spicific timer you would suggest? I don't know anything about them. I'll be useing a 25' extension cord. Thanks. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
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