Syncro front lower control arm differences

[Syncrozilla]

I've owned a bunch of syncros both early and late and I don't think there is any compelling reason to prefer one style over the other. The suspension on syncrozilla used the later arms that were on the van when I bought it. It had more suspension travel than most syncros. Sure they might be a few pounds heavier but I'd always prefer something solid or swiss cheese any day of the week.
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Please do not message me on TheSamba. Use my email, [email protected]

[hans j]

Just a note, unsprung weight for items attached to the body are calculated in as half their actual weight. The theory being is since it is supported by the chassis, not all the weight is used. Where as a brake rotor/caliper and wheel bearing housing are all calculated as full weight.

It's unlikely it will make more than 10 pounds difference for front unsprung weight. But still it's around 10% of the weight.

My rear unsprung weight was almost half the front. And tire/wheel combination was almost half the front!
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[astar84]

wow! thought the rust on my syncro doner was bad! my arms were full of holes so scrapped them and some other rare parts. I think I called 10 vw junkyards around the country looking for some!! I did finally find some so they are out there.... for now good luck.

the burley arms were my next option and seemed worth it for their build quality.
having said all that the arms should be interchangable, as others have said, you also need new or usable radius arms and sway links specifically for the cast arms which may not be any easier to find.
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frankenwesty EJ25 Syncro convert!

[tjet]

Yea they are ugly. I think this van was sitting in a shallow pond or something because I noticed a water line on the wheels.

The Burley arms are nice, but priority wise, I'm saving up for a trans overhaul, which is an unknown until it gets opened up. The front end will need to be back-burnered until trans, tank, & engine are done.

Thx for all the reply's. I have some good info at this point that I will revisit later when I start restoring the front susp.

Until then.......

[Syncronoid]

I went with a pair or refurbs from Burley.

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'90 Syncro Westy w/GW2.5L

[Syncroqc]

[T3TRIS]

Alright, I’m reviving this old thread for one question: are stamped steel lower control arms interchangeable from left to right?
FYI: I am installing lifted Schwenk springs with new old man emu shocks using all poly bushings and front shock extenders.

I recently got these back from powder coating for our front end rebuild and had forgotten to mark them. Seeing how the powder coater handled them, they probably would’ve been mixed anyway.
I pressed the lower ball joints in the receivers and hammered the receivers back into the arms. With the powder coated surfaces, it’s a freakin’ tight fit.
I installed them trying to figure out which side had some scratches and dings from off-roading and made sure that that side was pointing down.
When reinstalling the shocks, I noticed that the top of the shock points backward instead of lining up with the little hole. Ignore the chewed up inner tie rod which will be replaced.

Things get very tight when adding the spring and it's tough to push the shock forward so it lines up with its hole. In the following photos, the spring is partially compressed and the jack is pushing the shock upward, slightly starting to lift the van off of the jack stands.

The radius rod mounting surfaces also don't line up and the 3 bolts are incredibly hard to thread in. As a matter of fact I simply stopped trying after having trying to hammer them in.

The shock is twisted in a way that makes me worry about the bushing and about contact/clearance.

Basically I wonder if I messed up the sides. I didn't try installing the other side yet.
Could I have installed the left side LCA on the right side and vice-versa? Or is that not possible? Do I just need to suck it up and just tighten things up?
I don’t really want to try to pry those lower ball joint receivers out if I don’t have to!
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Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery

[MarkWard]

For sure the upper A arm has a forward and backward. It’s as simple as flipping it on the same side. I’ll look at my lower control arm this am and see. Someone probably knows the answer already.

There was a thread that showed the correct orientation of the upper arm. I just can’t trust my memory.
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[T3TRIS]

[T3TRIS]

EDIT: I'm actually looking more into this right now as I am confused by the diagram. The part labeled 11 is the steel LCA, the one labeled 11A is the cast LCA. The part number table only shows 11A and (11A) labels, no 11 (without the "A").
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Well, here we go... a part number search brings up 2 part numbers doe these 1987 Vanagon Syncro Lower Control Arms (they call them wishbones):
Left: 251407153G
Right: 251407153H
This really sucks if I got them wrong, but it’s my own fault for not marking them I guess! Hopefully this will help others.

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Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery

[MarkWard]

It has been my life time experience, when you have a 50/50 chance of doing something right. It ends up being 90 to 10 your wrong.

I also think there might be a L and R lower ball joint housing.
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[ALIKA T3]

Stamped lower control arm "11" on the diagram for the Syncro is 251407153E.
Quantity needed 2, that means they are symetrical.
http://www.catcar.info/audivw/?lang=en&l=c3RzP...MDAwNTk%3D


The shock is always hard to install and line up, that`s why they added the access plug on to to use a T handle to screw on to of the shock to yank it in place.

The rearward leaning might be a bent control arm or pivot point or something like this. Holes are round everywhere?
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[T3TRIS]

[MarkWard]

It seems the cast ones are left and right. The welded ones, I'm not able to pull up a number in my ETKA for some reason.
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[pjn_wyo]

The stamped ones are the same side to side.

You have them the right direction.

Your upper control arm is the correct orientation as well.

The problem with the alignment of the lower ball joint adaptor/lower control arm/radius rod is that your radius rod nuts need backed way the hell off.

Edit 2: aside from backing off the radius rod bolt is the lower control arm bolt torqued down too? Loosen that bolt too to so the arm can wiggle to get it all together.

Here is the best image I have been able to find for upper control arm orientation ( from the 1986 factory service manual - thanks @tkic!)

Edit: why are you running the front shock extenders? I believe the old man emus are the correct length for the schwenck lift springs (have the lift springs and standard length shocks on two vans with no issues) . Maybe this extra length is adding some problems?

[T3TRIS]

[tjet]

I have the same shocks. You will like them.

Be sure to keep everything loose until the put the weight on wheels. I will actually load some extra weight in it & bounce on the front bumper before I tighten it all up.

[pjn_wyo]

I've rebuilt multiple syncro suspension with the same shocks and springs without the issues you are seeing with no shock spacer and not trying to install everything without the radius rod adjusted the way it is in the photo but sure don't listen to me.

Edit - just back the front nut off so you can move the arm forward and backward to get the holes lined up.

[T3TRIS]

[T3TRIS]

Well... I feel stupid
Turns out it’s just that everything is more stiff than I imagined. I thought I’d work easier by putting the shock/spring combo without the radius rod assembly, especially since it’d seem incredibly difficult to torque the lower shock bolt with the radius rod in place. It would appear that it’s the wrong order in which to do things. When reassembling this version of LCA, I guess this is what needs to be done:
1. Install lower control arm on sub-frame.
2. Install shock into LCA and torque lower bolt (make sure bolt comes from rear of the van). Support the assembly with floor jack (I set under the shock using a 2x2).
3. Thread radius rod into sub-frame and attach to LCA (lifting the LCA/shock high helps). I didn’t put the other half of the radius rod bushing yet.
4. Slide the compressed spring with spring pad onto shock.
5. Press the shock down and push the shock/spring assembly forward into the frame, you might need to move the jack aside to get more wiggle room. If you can do this relatively quickly and precisely, you might have time to put the jack back under the shock and help guide the slowly expanding shock into the little hole. I was able to do so by sticking a finger in the hole from above (insert inappropriate joke here) to guide the shock end and pushing the shock around with an open wrench through the coils of the spring. Worked great! Install the bushing, washer and nut.
6. Jack up the shock even more, just before the point that the van wants to lift from your floor jacks.
7. Do whatever it takes for the radius rod forward bushing to sit flat on the sub-frame. For my situation, I had to use a long clamp to pull the radius rod inward from right behind the rear radius rod bushing.
8. Remove the spring compressors.

Things look fine now, no need for me to panic about swapping LCA sides after all... but hey, at least I learned a lot!!

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Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery