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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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 Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:26 pm Post subject: New Guy with a hunting buggy to be sand rail |
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Hi all. I live in the desert in SoCal, and spend a lot of time in the dirt. I've always built 4x4s, Jeep, Blazer, Cummins Dodge...the Dodge is down this offroading season and I had this little veedub drop in my lap, figured I'd give it a try. Got it right before the long Thanksgiving weekend and spent all weekend wrenching on it or driving it at Superstition. My kids love zipping around the dunes in it. It's been used to putt around the desert as a hunting vehicle for years and is somewhat neglected (and ugly), but the engine (and maybe trans?) were supposed to have been somewhat recently built by ORBS (good?) in Yuma. Engine looked good inside when I had the valve covers off.
I've adjusted the valves (.006"), timing (pinging), repaired the Weber (first Weber) accel pump, been in the brakes twice (most of my trouble) adjusted clutch, throttle cable, broke rusted seat slider loose, installed 4 point seatbelt, etc...lots of little stuff, and a lot to go. I want to rework the roofline and get a little seat in the back for the kids. Back tires (33") are too big, and rotten, one blew at the end of the day today. Front 8 ply implement tires are too big and heavy. Needs a bigger steering wheel without sharp edged spokes. Shifter feels sloppy, stiff, and gritty, hard to find and get into the gears. Etc...
One thing I am most curious about, is that when it's cold it runs fine, even without a choke, always starts right up, but doesn't have much power, won't pull second hard in sand. Once it gets warmed up, second is awesome, but then it gets a bit too warm and starts pinging and cranking hard if I stall it and restart. Doesn't have vac adv, distrib has an 009 on it, perf version from the little reading I've done. I backed off the timing and added octane booster to the 87 in the fuel tank, and that seemed to cure most of the pinging, but I'd like to learn how much octane I can add and how much timing I can put back in for more power, and see what the deal is with it getting too warm...and put in an oil temp gauge or something to monitor temp.
Wadded up brake shoe on a big rocky downhill. That was exciting. Need to figure out why. Alum master cyl, CNC cutting brake, no front brakes. Having a hard time getting them bled 100%, and I think I want to put brakes back on the front.
I'm all ears, thanks y'all. |
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Bashr52
Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2006
Posts: 5666
Location: On an island in VA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Wow, whats up with that roll cage? Someone must have been super tall! |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:49 am Post subject: |
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#1 timing with an 009 is to be set between 28 and 32 degrees. Putting additional timing in will not help it run better. A relatively stock 1600 should be fine with 87 octane. Do you have a higher compression ratio or something? Cant tell unless you pull a head and measure. and hopefully you didnt hurt anything driving it with audible pinging.
Would suggest just spending a little bit of time tuning it. You may be jetted too lean. Also, buggies are notorious for missing a lot of their engine tins, which will make it run hotter.
Do this - list your carburator and any additional details you know about the engine. And include some detail pics of the engine.
One last thing - this isnt a modern fuel injected car. Until it has a chance to warm up a bit (like 10 minutes or so) it isnt going to be real happy.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Welcome to your new addiction and the Samba....
Picture of wadded up brake shoe tells me you might have massive fluid leak in the wheel cylinder.... Or bad axle seal and letting gear oil in brake drum... What ever the problem, it need immediate attention...
Suggest new wheel cylinders and shoes (got to have really good brakes if only on two wheels).... Drums may be questionable depending on wear and how well new shoes fit arc of drum....
Looks like fun ride ...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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brooksinc1976
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2014
Posts: 140
Location: Pasadena
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Cool pics I'm digging the hunting-mobile. |
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2trackrat
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2014
Posts: 27
Location: lansing mi.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Your chassis is a sand hawk with modified roof and windshield. Add some cross bracing and let it roll. |
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Metal Twister
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Hey David... As a desert dweller check out some of the other sand cars running drum brakes. They drill holes in the backing plates and everything. Some to lighten up the car a bit but mostly to let the sand back out once it gets in the brakes. Of course if there is moister in the brakes sand isn't going to be coming back out. Sweet rig, I like it a lot! and the co pilot looks like he loves it! See ya soon Buddy. Hey I have a 65 full body bug less engine if you can use it it's yours? Good swing axle and front beam for spare parts?
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Change is Opportunity!
Instagram=metaltwister |
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys, thanks for the input. Been busy and haven't been getting reply notifications in my email. I will put up some more info tonight and pictures in the next couple days, haven't gotten out to snap any.
Hey MT, thanks for stopping by! I'll probably take you up on that bug. I like having spare parts...took me 4 Sweptline Dodges to build one, haha!
(MT is a good friend of mine from the 4x4 world in real life, good guy) |
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MacLeod Willy
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2014
Posts: 933
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject: brake |
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What the heck is jambed into the forward brake adjuster  |
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Metal Twister
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure but I think the shoe got pulled outwards and that part is the bent part that should go there, only in a straight line... ? Just guessing?
The Rat rod of sand cars Dave. She's a classic!
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Change is Opportunity!
Instagram=metaltwister |
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: brake |
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Hey, cool, I got a notification! I was just off reading about timing, measuring and marking the pulley for 30 degrees.
| MacLeod Willy wrote: |
| What the heck is jambed into the forward brake adjuster |
The tang on the brake shoe that engages the adjuster bent/collapsed/folded up, and then the wheel cylinder over-extended, blowing fluid everywhere and losing all braking force. I was pumping the brake pedal and the cutting brake to no avail careening down the hill dodging rocks. I think it would be nice to have a cable E-brake...
I suspect that the front shoe was adjusted too tight and the rear too loose...and possibly one or both shoes on the other side were loose, and when I hit the brake pedal as hard as I could ( 6', 180 pound guy + a little adrenaline on a steep downhill), the one shoe by itself couldn't handle the force. Other possible issues I thought of are the drums maybe being over size (what is the max ID?) or the shoes being too thin and weak, or maybe the master cylinder not being the correct size for the slave cylinders and putting too much force on them. It may also be partly due to the front brakes not being there...the force of the master cylinder was designed to be divided on 4 drums and 8 shoes, and it's working on half as many...
The *temporary, don't do this at home* fix was a trip to the pressure washer/steam cleaner, a thorough blasting with hot soap and water and followup with brake cleaner, carefully straighten and adjust everything, and drive carefully in the sand only, and not stomping on the brake pedal like a mad man whilst staying the heck away from the rocks Sunday afternoon. Once I got it out in the medium bowls, and got the hang of driving it, I don't think I touched the brakes much if at all. 2nd gear, steer uphill to slow down and down hill to speed up. With the 33" tires at 5psi, it won't blast straight up a dune from a stop, gotta get momentum up.
Normally, contaminated shoes must be replaced because the heat of braking will crystallize the shoes with oil on them and they won't "grip" the drum...but I wasn't too worried about it knowing I wouldn't be around obstacles and not getting out of 2nd gear. On a roadgoing car, replacement would be a must. |
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Metal Twister wrote: |
Not sure but I think the shoe got pulled outwards and that part is the bent part that should go there, only in a straight line... ? Just guessing?
The Rat rod of sand cars Dave. She's a classic! |
Yeah, I'm trying to keep an ole skool (aka low budget, haha) theme with it. |
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a tech video. Oil leak/seep. What worries me is that the oil is gray, as if it has ground up aluminum in it. Maybe something inside the fan tin?
I'm guessing that's the oil pressure sender by the distrib base?
http://vid142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/DavidWhy...vpyogj.mp4 |
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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So this is where a parts car comes in handy. Missing brake shoe retainers.
This is what I came up with from our hardware sales dept at work. It was supposed to be a temporary get-by fix, but I may have accidentally come up with an improved design. It's a grade 8 flat head socket head cap screw with a washer under the head and a nut under the washer, screwed tight to where the thread tapers into the tapered head. The nut retains the washer while still allowing it to rock and keeps the bolt roughly centered in the spring. Not pictured is the locking nut on the back of the backing plate. It's easier to use, no flying springs and hat or pinched fingers. Care must be taken to ensure the spring is not over compressed. I measured the stock compressed height on the other side of the buggy.
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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I picked up the trailer that goes with the buggy and an extra set of 16" wheels for the buggy, which is great because I have plenty of hand-me-down 16" tires kicking around. Going to try some 245/75/16s, about 31" tall mud tread (MTRs). A local tire shop has some 16" wheel 33" tall x 8" wide tractor tires, but I don't want to spend the money as I suspect they are too tall, narrow, and heavy.
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16758
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Not sure how close in diameter the brake shoe hole is relative to the bolt you used. The shoe has to move freely and compensate for wear. If you look at how narrow the nails are relative to the hole, you will see what I mean. And the hardware kits are pretty cheap.....Maybe just drill out the hole on the shoes a little.... Not discounting your idea, just commenting.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 2675
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:23 am Post subject: |
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I like the look of that frame which kind of surprises me since I'm not a big classic fan. I wouldn't change it. Maybe just reinforce it so no one gets hurt. I wouldn't even paint it. lol Looks cool the way it is. Just refurb all the the mechs and have fun!
Pretty impressive that the adjuster held together and the brake shoe bent. Just goes to show German quality.
_________________
Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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MacLeod Willy
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2014
Posts: 933
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: brake |
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| Looks like there is lots of lining there and the drums would never get that thin. Hard to imagine the catastrophic events that went on inside, nice fix! |
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DavidWymore
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014
Posts: 121
Location: SoCal near Glamis
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| Not sure how close in diameter the brake shoe hole is relative to the bolt you used. The shoe has to move freely and compensate for wear. If you look at how narrow the nails are relative to the hole, you will see what I mean. And the hardware kits are pretty cheap.....Maybe just drill out the hole on the shoes a little.... Not discounting your idea, just commenting. |
You're right, I didn't think of that...I'll take a look. Intent is to get new shoes and hardware anyway. |
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