My 63 body on a 59 pan Herbie project car

slave1pilot · Last edited by slave1pilot on Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:11 pm; edited 2 times in total

Hey everyone, I'm new to the site but not to Bugs in general.
I had 3 (67,68,& a 70) in the past, but that was over 15 years ago.
I had always wanted an earlier year (63) that I could convert over to a Herbie (I know,but I love that car) but never could find/afford one.
However, a couple days ago I got this from my wife as an early Christmas present:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It's been sitting for over 12 years and it's in need of lots of love.
It's a 59 pan, but the body was changed out long ago to what I believe to be a 61. That's why it's not gonna be too big of a crime to make it into a Herbie as opposed to restoring it to what it once was.

This thing screams the 80's in SoCal.
Hawaiian Rubber,shaved turn signals, 5 spoke EMPIs, Decklid stand-off kit, the works.
All that's missing is a "Local Motion" or "Bad Boy Club" sticker in the back window. Very Happy

I have a long way to go, but I wanted to at least start a thread.
Wish me luck VW Logo

grandpa pete · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the samba......
there is the answer to ANY VW question in the tech section and the search feature . please learn how to use both .

When I started here I read the build threads to learn what was involved in a major project .
Please consider an upgrade to a 67+ dual master cylinder for safety .
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery

slave1pilot · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject:

Thank you.
The brakes will need a serious upgrade from the stock drums.
The engine on this is claimed to be a 2180cc (don't know if that's true yet) so it'll have to have something to make it stop better than the old drums

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

that engine in the photo is going to have some cooling issues with the oil cooler right over the cold air intake, and the funky aftermarket fan house that likely is not designed well missing critical internal vanes and such. get the engine bay in order so the motor will last long and not over heat.

you can buy disc brakes for the car, or get some performance shoes and live with what you got for a while. That engine needs some original german cooling parts to be right, and the oil cooler needs to be moved out of the engine bay.

It appears to be a nice looking body of a very desirable year to have. the pan although a 58 is not that much different than the 61 Pan. which tranny does she have, the split case or tunnel type? (split is stock for 58, tunnel type for 61)

any collision damage noted????, as often that is why a body is swapped out on a different pan.

PS I like the Hebie look, the VW's dealers used to sell a decal kit for making a Herbie, remember seeing them in the dealer show room when I was a kid picking up parts with my Dad. Dad didn't buy the decal (would have looked funny on a green bug anyway,) but Dad did by me a nice shinny red metal Bug about a foot long that had a battery operated motor and it would drive around, even has a clear deck lid so you could see the clear motor and the pistons moving back and forth as it drove along the floor. He got it from the dealer parts department. I still have that red toy bug, close to 40+ years later.

Bugs are so darn cool, everything about them is cool.
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

slave1pilot · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject:

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

an original german (avoid the aftermarket reproduction ones!!!) dog house cooling system is the best, for the big motor you may want to get a late fuel injected smog control bug fan house, as it directed more air to the heads at expense of the oil cooler, I assume you may still do a remote oil cooler, maybe place it under the car above the tranny with an electric fan. thus you get the best head cooling from the later injected car dog house, yet still can keep the oil cool with both the stock cooler and the remote cooler.
But any german VW dog house fan set up is superior to what is in their now, just is the last injected cars had more air for the heads, less to the cooler. lean mixtures in the smog control days in the mid/late 1970's forced higher head temps, which VW tried to mitigate by blowing more air over them.

you will need to keep the engine lid propped open when you convert to the dog house, as it draws a lot more air than the non-dog house fan that was stock for 1961, and the 61 engine lid is not louvered like on the later cars. the bigger fan from the dog house will suck a vacuum in your engine bay unless you cut louvers, prop the lid open or install a convertible engine lid. you will notice this at freeway speeds as the engine loose power as it is being robbed of air by the fast turning larger fan!!! the problem is worse if you have the old stock gear ratio of an early car, as the engine turns a good deal faster with the lower ratio gears found on the early cars verses the later cars.

yeah my bad, I don't know why wrote it was a 1958 rather than a 1959, other than I had a 58 once, actually I remember I still have a 58, but it is a ghia, I sold my 58 bug 25 years ago. but still have Dads old 61, the green one that would have looked funny in Herbie decals!!!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

slave1pilot · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject:

slave1pilot · Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:50 am Post subject:

I changed out the front tires last night (so i can tow it home tomorrow)
While I was there , I looked it over a little more.
Here's my dash

I hope the radio will cover the modified cutout of the dash. If not, then I'll have to fill it, but I hope not.
Also, why is the knob above the radio gone?

The A-pillars have some rust ,but it doesn't look too bad.

And yes, that's water on the pan. The ragtop cover is smoked, and it rained this week.

I'll take a bunch of pictures tomorrow after I get it home.

slave1pilot · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:07 am Post subject:

I went over and picked the car up to bring it home (finally)

But, on the way home I stopped in the car wash to try and spray the 12 years of dirt off.
I think I may have gotten 7-8 years, but not all 12 Smile

And here he is at home now.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject:

slave1pilot · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject:

slave1pilot · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject:

I was looking across the interwebs trying to find the differences between a 62 and a 63.
One of the changes is the ragtop handle.
Here's mine:

Can anyone else help to ID my car?
No vin plates anywhere on the car.
The Engine isn't original
The Decklid and hood are not original to the body (underside paint doesn't match)
Ultimately, it really doesn't matter since they are so close. It's just for my own peace of mind.

VOLKSWAGNUT · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject:

Never try to decipher years by bolt on parts.. that's "Identifying the year of your VW 101".... Laughing

Always use the non easily changed main body Wink

Its a 1963.. body.
3 hinge holes for door hinges and the folding Golde roof handle nails it.
If the roof sunroof sliding rails are one piece track per side (no short rears) .. and has large round rear floor heat outlet tubes under the rear seat that confirms 63 even more.

Guess you get that Herbie after all.. still dont know why though.. they bring attention without all the stripes and numbers...
go magnetic or vinyl wrap accents.

Your car.. make it how ya like.. and enjoy.. thats the most important thing.

.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
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slave1pilot · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject:

carcrazed · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:11 pm Post subject:

I am partial to support your herbie conversion...wonder why?? That is a nice looking car you have!!!
_________________
1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles

"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong."

slave1pilot · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:11 pm Post subject:

Thank you for the support.

I edited the title to reflect the 63
_________________
My Photobucket for my Herbie Project - http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/TK-439/library/Herbie?sort=3&page=1

Currently:
1963 Ragtop Beetle
Previously:
1967 Beetle
1968 Beetle
1970 Beetle

Abscate · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:47 am Post subject:

In one of the photos above it looks like the deck lid is hinged to catch that extra cooling air needed for your bigger engine.
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Rome · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:00 am Post subject:

Congratulations slave1, you have a very understanding and enthusiastic wife to provide you with such a project!

Here are some observations:
I also agree with the body being a '63 based on the sunroof folding handle (1 year only) and the non-H apron. Also, the door handles are the non-ice pick style which started as of the 1960 model year.

Absolutely keep the non-H apron style if you must replace it, since that style is much easier for removing the engine than an H-apron would be. And Herbie had the later apron style.

The taillamps are mounted way too high to be correct for a '58 thru '61. Even if you use those same mounting holes for the correct '62-era taillamps, they might still be too high. The '62 era taillamps had one more wire going to them than the '61 and earlier. You will hopefully find the extra wire cut back at the wheelwell, or behind the side tarboard panels. Do you have a good repair manual with a colored wiring diagram? If not, this one is correct for your "body" and will help you alot-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_62.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_62_key.jpg

Your dash should have holes for a passenger grab handle above the glovebox. But since the windshield wiper/washer switch has been removed, the grab handle holes might also have been closed up at the same time.

Your right rear wheel seems to be off center in the wheelwell, slightly forward. Make sure you have the 3 large bolts inboard of the wheel which hold the axle end to the back of the trailing arm spring plate.

Do you know the large pick-a-part yard in Adelanto on US 395 (Ecology Auto Parts), just north of the industrial airport? I stopped in there while driving back from Las Vegas this past March, just to look at their VWs. They had about 20 Beetles there, though nearly all were from the big-bumper era. They'd be worth a try to find a complete doghouse and other engine tin, especially the rear breast plate which you MUST have. Here's a shot of mine which I posted for the Type 3 forum from that visit; you can still see plenty of Beetles in this row. There was another row facing this one with more Beetles-

Once you do get your doghouse shroud engine in place, you can also use a decklid stand-off for the bottom of the lid, to move it away from the body about 2". That will not be as noticeable as louvers, nor like the stand-offs for the top of the lid; and will help with supplying cooling air alot.

I was just in Lancaster on Monday while out on a driving trip visiting in-laws in LA. Turned off Rt 14 onto Ave. G westbound to the musical road. Then went onto Rt 138 west and drove a small amount on the old Ridge Route.

slave1pilot · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject:

slave1pilot · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject:

So...
Tonight on a whim I decided to see if I can rotate the motor by hand using a breaker bar on the crank pulley.
no dice. Won't budge a fraction
I guess I shoulda tried that before haggling the price.
_________________
My Photobucket for my Herbie Project - http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/TK-439/library/Herbie?sort=3&page=1

Currently:
1963 Ragtop Beetle
Previously:
1967 Beetle
1968 Beetle
1970 Beetle


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My 63 body on a 59 pan Herbie project car
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