Rebuild 1968 Squareback in one year? = FAIL

[W1K1]

[bkeith85]

[bkeith85]

I uploaded some engine pics, so maybe I can begin a review of what I did.

A couple pages back, I posted a picture of the engine as removed. It had been leaking oil pretty bad from the oil cooler seals and a few other places. I had also semi stripped one spark plug hole so I decided to pull it out and go through the whole thing. I didn't even consider checking the condition of the pistons and cylinders, because a new set wasn't that much.

When I got it apart, I found that the crank was in good shape and didn't need to be turned, so i just cleaned it up, coated it with Gibbs Brand spray lube and wrapped it up for later.

I got the case nice and clean so I could measure the main bores and tap the oil galleries.

I started out trying to clean the case with mineral spirits in my parts washer, but it wouldn't touch the old goo that was all over it. I think it was a combination of oil and undercoating. Purple Power worked a little better, but it was taking forever. So, I set up a cleaning station in the backyard and experimented with something I had been reading about on some non-VW sites.

I had an old 55-gal steel drum laying around, so I set it up on some concrete blocks and filled it with water. I built a fire underneath it and dumped in about 4-6 scoops of the regular old Tide laundry detergent. Tide was the preferred brand, as it may have more lye in it, I'm not sure. I don't even know if they put lye in detergent anymore. I know it's hard to get by itself because of all the drug addicts.
Anyway, I let the water get nice and hot and stirred it up with a 2x4. It never got hot enough to boil, but it still seemed to work. I then suspended each case half with wire from the 2x4 so it wouldn't sit against the hot barrel. Then I let it sit in there for a couple of hours. When they came out, they were almost spotless. The hose got the rest off with a little brushing here and there. I may have used the pressure washer on a couple of spots too. This may sound like more trouble than it is worth, but once you have it set up, you can remove a lot of gunk without much effort. I did the case, both heads, another pair of T4 heads, the trans case, and the fan housing.
Also, if you don't like playing with solvents or live in a place that has outlawed anything stronger that Windex, this might be your thing.

I liked that my parts were getting clean but I was free to go work on something else. Just don't leave them in there too long. I don't know what this stuff could do to aluminum and magnesium if left a long time. It might not end well.

[bkeith85]

Once I had the case clean, I could check it over good and tap the galleries for NPT plugs. The main bores were out of round, so I had to get those cut. I thought I kept the original measurements, but I can't find them. I checked at one VW resto shop and he wanted $250 to do it, so I passed. I tried another shop, but the owner is rarely there, so I never got a price from them. I ended up finding a guy who owned a sand and gravel company to do it. He has been building VWs on the side for decades. He cut the case to the first oversize, but said the thrust was fine and left it STD. I think he charged me $75. He even did a light cut on my cam journals, as the middle cam journal tends to shrink or shift over time. There was just a light cut on part of that journal. My oil clearance on the cam was 0.003" on the middle and thrust bearings, while the front bearing was 0.0015". Speaking of cam bearings, here's a question: I ordered a double thrust bearings set from Mahle. I was under the impression that I would have to modify the case or the bearing to make them fit. I didn't have to, is that normal?

This is one side:

And this is the other:

I am pretty sure the case has not been opened before. Plus, why would it have been previously modified, yet the bearing I removed was just a single thrust set? Did some cases come this way?
I know I probably didn't need the double thrust bearings, but they were only a couple bucks more.

Here's another mod that I probably didn't need. When I first started reading about these engines, it seemed that everyone was down on the stock 10mm head studs. So, I bought a set of 8mm studs and some case savers. I made a fixture to hold each case half and drilled and tapped my case. I even did the deep-stud above #3:

Then, I mic'd the crank and it was within spec, so I just polished the journals a little bit. I then decided to try and balance my rods. I bought a scale, and built a fixture to support one end. It was really tough to get consistent weights, so I just got them as close as I could. I really wanted to get them within a half gram, but it didn't happen. I couldn't get the end weights that close without taking too much off the total rod weight without removing more material than I was comfortable with.

Here are the numbers:
For total rod weight, I have 612.2g, 610.5g, 610.4g, and 609.9g.
The small ends of those rods are 188.6g, 182.6g, 184.3g, 184.6g.

The lightest rod was untouched. I don't know what the deal was with the heaviest one, I got it that close, and quit. To drop 2 more grams meant taking off too much, so I just had to accept it.

Anyway, my next post will be an expose on wrist pin bushings.

[bkeith85]

Ok, I had thought I was on the verge of a revelation about the wrist pin to bushing fit, but it turns out that it's just me and my perception of "push fit". I read several threads that said if you pins move freely enough to slide out when the rod is turned, the bushings are worn out. So, I replaced mine and took them to the machine shop to be honed to fit my new pins. I looked up the specs in the Bentley and sent those to the shop. Supposedly, there should be a 0.0004" to 0.0008" oil clearance. Since I gave the guy that range, and didn't specify where in the range I wanted them, he honed them to 0.0006". Which is right smack in the middle of the accepted range for new parts.

When I picked them up, I checked the fit while I was there. They weren't any tighter than before. The pin could slide right out easily. I didn't say anything, electing to determine the true problem when I got home. I measured all of them several times, and they are exactly 0.0006" for the oil clearance. I figured that, if they were any tighter, how could oil get in there and lube the pin?

I came up with this theory, that the push fit is actually related to the fit of the pin to the piston, and that maybe people had gotten confused over the years and just applied it to the rod. The way I see it, the pin IS a push fit in the piston. I can push it in by hand, but just barely. So, I looked up "push fit" in Machinery's Handbook to find out the true meaning. It turned out to be just a tad tighter, with a range of 0.0002" to 0.0007". I don't think that's enough to consider it mislabeled. I still feel that it would need to be at the tight end of the range to be a "push fit". I didn't measure the difference between the pin and the pin bore in the piston. I should have, just for comparison.

So, I finally decided that it was simply my poorly calibrated pin pushing "feel". That test just doesn't work for me. I can't trust it to be a good indicator of wear. I should have just measured them to begin with. They were probably fine like they were.

In the end, my point is, don't go by iffy test methods because you may not get an accurate result. Measure it and know for sure.

[Clatter]

Bravo on the 8mm case savers with deep-stud.
A very worthwhile change IMHO.

The piston pin fit thing is an interesting one.
You might have been feeling a dirty pin bush, and the tightest 'choke point' in the past.
They don't wear evenly all around.
So, you have likely achieved a tighter fit even though it feels the same as before.

Love your hot tank.... Got a pic?

Sweet build. Watching closely.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[bkeith85]

[bkeith85]

What's next... Oh yeah. I checked all my rod dimensions, and got the bushings honed, so they were ready to go. Once I had all my critical dimensions, I ordered my parts. I had already gotten a few things, like new pushrod tubes, a gasket set, an new lifters (Engle). But I needed the P&Cs and bearings. I ended up ordering all my stuff from AA Performance. They had a deal where you got free shipping on orders over $400 and I was able to get enough stuff to hit that mark. Shipping to AL usually kills any good deal, since most of the parts are on the other side of the country. I got most of my parts from places that would offer free shipping.

So, this is what I ended up with:
AA 85.5mm P&C set
Silverline Main and Rod bearings
But, that doesn't add up to $400 right? Nope. But I also have plans to build a T4 engine at some point in the future, so I went ahead and got:
AA dished 1700 P&C set
Silverline 0.10" under main bearings (for the reworked crank I got from another Samba member)
All new HD valve springs, retainers and keepers to be used on that 1700.

I went with a Crower 61002 cam. It's supposedly a "stock" cam, but it's on a 110 LSA. It's also a dual pattern grind, which I like. I have always had good luck with cams like that.

I kept the stock oil pump and just blueprinted it. Most everything else is stock/original. Oh, I did get all new stock valve springs on closeout from RockAuto.

Once all my parts arrived, I could start pre-asembly:

I wanted to put it together enough that I could check my deck height and degree the cam.
The thing is, I tried to be slick and build my own engine holder for my existing engine stand. It turned out great and is probably stronger than what is currently available. But..... I miscalculated. I found out at this point, that I cannot attach the flywheel while the engine is on the stand. The two arms curve too soon and there isn't enough room. DOH!

So, I had to put it together, then take it off the stand to check the cam:

[bkeith85]

Ok, I just realized that I got my pictures mixed up. One is actually from the final assembly, but it looks pretty much the same, you get the idea.

Even though this is a stock-ish cam, I still wanted to check the events with a degree wheel. I had never done it before and it was time to learn. I wasn't going to spring for an adjustable cam gear, so it didn't really matter what I found as long as it wasn't too far off.
And guess what - it was off a little. It was supposed to have 4 degrees of advance built in, but I measured only 2 degrees of advance. This is measured at the crank.

Since it was my first time, I called in an expert to double check my work:

She got the same numbers I did, so I emailed Crower and got no response. I did some research and finally decided that 2 degrees wasn't enough to worry about on a basically stock engine, so I pressed on.
My cam gear was a +1 or +2, I can't remember. But it fit well and had just enough backlash. I wanted to keep it, so I recessed the face (actually the side in gear terminology, I think) a little so the bolts wouldn't hit the pump.

This was just the first or second cut. I had to take off about 1/16" and I also thinned the heads of the bolts a little. Was it worth it? Probably not. But now I know. An adjustable gear would have solved two problems at once, but I was trying to stay within my budget.

About my cam choice - I don't think this is a common cam grind. I only found a couple people mention using it. I chose this one based on calculations from the book "How to Build Horsepower" by David Visard. I won't go over his credentials here, but a quick google search will tell you all about him. I know there are guys, especially engine builders, who will say that the only way to choose a cam is through dyno tests, or years of experience. I don't have a dyno, and this is my first VW cam purchase.

If you are the kind of person who, when asking for an explanation, hates to hear "that's just the way it is", with no logic or method behind it, then maybe you should read some of this guys stuff. I'm sure someone could argue that his theories are wrong, but at least he will give you a method and some theory to go by. Whenever I see a guy who tells you how to build your engine, but doesn't explain why, I figure it is because he doesn't know either. Then, it's just two guys guessing, with one having a little more practice at it.

And yes, I am probably over-analyzing a stock cam. But, I haven't tried out any of Vizards ideas yet and I needed a guinea pig. They would be of more use for a bigger cam or a custom grind. I just felt like dusting off my soapbox for a minute.

[customcityjim]

Your second opinion came from what looks to be a very qualified future mechanic. I have a great granddaughter that wants to do everything to help her "PaPa" She is 5 right now and the only other family member interested in all this VW stuff I have. Her future may be right in front of her. Imagine the cost of these cars and parts when she is 20. Keep up the good work and teach the youngsters all you can, they will need it in the future.

[bkeith85]

[bkeith85]

As requested, here is a pic of the homemade "hot tank".

Since I have limited free time to work on things, I love any tool/machine/process that can do some work for me without my input. Like my band saw, I can start it cutting a piece of steel, and then go work on something else. When it is finished I turn it off. This tank is the same way, I can let parts soak for an hour or so while I do something else.

Of course, for obvious safety reasons, I am not suggesting anyone start a fire under this thing and leave to go play golf all day. But you don't have to stand right in front of it the whole time. And you don't have to kill yourself scrubbing away with a toothbrush, trying to get it all clean. You might have to scrape or brush some stubborn spots, though. I usually pull the part out after an hour and spray it off to see what's left. Usually some scraping and another dip gets it clean.

One other thing. So far, I have been using about 4 or 5 scoops of detergent with the drum about 3/4 full of water. I am sure there is an optimum ratio, but I haven't tried to figure it out. The thing is, when I pulled the magnesium parts out, the soap would leave a whitish film on the part. Water alone did not get it off. I think I did a final cleaning with mineral spirits, which helped. I got the impression that if left too long, it might start to eat away at the metal. I think the best thing to do would be to neutralize it after it is clean with a dip in some diluted vinegar.
I just read up on lye burns and vinegar, so if this detergent does have lye in it, educate yourself and use caution before trying this at home, kids.

[bkeith85]

I think I left off with the mock-up of the short block. I checked the cam, found it was off, but not enough to worry about changing it. I also checked my deck height at this point.
I don't have the numbers with me right now, but they were all in the 0.050" - 0.060" range. I wanted something closer to 0.040". So, I compared the lengths of each barrel and found them to vary slightly.

I decided to correct both problems by shortening the cylinders a smidge.

To be clear, I'm not a machinist. I'm just a guy who has a few machines and I'm teaching myself how to use them. I felt like I could handle this task, so I tried it. In the end, it turned out great. But I did screw them up halfway through. Instead of trusting the machine to make repeatable cuts, I tried to over think things and use a measuring system that was unreliable. I ended up with more length variation than I started with and one cylinder having about 0.032" deck height.

My solution was to cut them again, this time to the same length. They were all too short, but I cut them enough so that a 0.010" shim would get me back to where I wanted to be. My cylinder lengths were all very close, which was the priority. Because of that, I did end up with unequal deck heights, but they didn't vary too much. I think most of that may have been from the crank and rods. I didn't have the rods resized. I measured them, and felt they were fine to use, but maybe they had slight length differences. The AA pistons that I used were actually very even in dimension and weight. I was surprised.

Even though I ran the risk of screwing up my cylinders, I still think it was worth it. I know a lot of people would rather leave some things to a professional, but I like learning how to do things and the only way to do that is to take a chance and try it. My recommendation is to experiment with junk parts first. That would have been better in my case.

[Clatter]

Bravo!

Wish I had me a lathe.. I ran 'em for about 5 years in a past life.
They can usually repeat better than those guys at AA!
After getting some cylinders from them that were pretty bad,
I'll never run a set of those without measuring the length.
Better to have it fail a leak-down than to have to pull-n-stuff it.
Especially if you do the leak-down before it gets oil.

Often, there will be variation in the amount of stroke from journal to journal with the crank, in addition to differences in rod length.
Sometimes, you can juggle them around to get things more even.

Two other ways of getting your CR where you want;
Shave the piston tops or open up the chambers.

Opening up the chambers can give you some more power, FWIW.
Don't want to have to spend money on a set of base shims if you don't have to..
Plus, free horsepower.
As long as your idea of fun is clutching a die grinder for a while...

Dunno of you saw my kid on my build thread.
He was getting pretty good until Minecraft came along...

Loving this build.
I dig your parts washer and cylinder holding fixture, too!
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[bkeith85]

Next, I did the heads. I cleaned all the gunk off, then bead blasted them. I did the wiggle test and the guides showed some wear. The heads had fairly new looking TRW exhaust valves, but I didn't want to risk it. Plus, I figured that maybe with new valves, some of that guide clearance would decrease a bit. So, I ordered all new valves. I got them from SI, which is the same place that Len Hoffman and Jake Raby use, I think. I could be wrong about that.
Anyway, they have any valve you could want and they are inexpensive. Shipping was super fast too.
I got new valve springs because they were on closeout and it was hard to pass them up.
Well, the new valves may have reduced the oil clearance a little, but I still need guides. They ARE still within the range of OK, but they are nearing the worn out point. I would have liked to replace them, but no one around here would do it and I didn't want to send them off. I also didn't want to sink a ton of money into heads that had other issues. I'd be better off with new heads. But then you have to pay extra to get the stupid Type 1 step cut out of them. So I was looking at close to $500 for a pair of new heads for an engine I might not keep for very long. I decided to wait and put that money toward some Type 4 heads later.
Plus, I can always pull them off and rebuild them if I choose.

So I got everything nice and clean, assembled them, and cc'd the chambers. I decided to skip a thread repair on the #1 plug hole since it still had about 75% of it's threads left. I ran a tap through it and it seemed ok. (Foreshadowing - hint hint)

I also lapped all the valves to the seats using two grits of Clover compound.

[bkeith85]

[bkeith85]

I don't think I posted these pics before, but here is another lathe and shaper project that turned out pretty good. When I got the car, it had a stock mechanical fuel pump on it. It probably worked fine, but I hated that all my fuel lines, including the carb inlets were 8mm and the pump was 6mm. Since all of the wiring was still in place, I decided to go with an electric pump. It's a Carter, the same one CB Performance recommends for dual carb setups.

So, I needed to mount it and I didn't have the stock bracket. I really didn't know what it even looked like, but I had an idea of how and where it fit. I saw the way Supaninja mounted his pump and was inspired to do something similar. I know it looks way overbuilt, but I wanted it to be secure and also to act as a heat sink for the pump.

I cut a recess in the center hole and lined it with rubber to dampen the vibrations from the pump. That and the mass of the mount make it almost silent. I hear it when I turn the key on, but with the engine running, I can't hear it. I have it running through the stock pump relay, but for now I just have that wired to come on with the key in the ON position. I was going to use a GM sending unit to switch it on, because it will also run an oil pressure gauge. But, the sender I had was no good and was leaking out of the socket end. When I get another one, I'll wire it up correctly.

I toyed with the idea of cutting out some of the middle of the mount so it wasn't just so chunky, but once all the bolt holes were drilled,there wasn't much space left. I also thought about cutting grooves in the sides so it would look finned, but remembered that no one would ever see it, so I just left it as-is. I have a tendency to get carried away with things like that.

[Stuartzickefoose]

better then my pump mount!

I did end up moving it higher so it wont get ripped off the bottom of the car by the way.
_________________
Stuart Zickefoose

2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDi 6 speed manual

206-841-7324
[email protected]

[bkeith85]

[bkeith85]

I have my VW notebook with me now, so I can post some of my engine build specs.
Out of the box, my AA cylinder lengths were:
4.4275"
4.4270"
4.4290"
4.4310"

Which gave me deck heights of:
0.0525"
0.0510"
0.0550"
0.0475"

Now, at this point, I should be giving you the final measurements after the cylinders were shortened. But, I can't find them in my book. I'm sure they are scribbled down somewhere. I'll look when I get home. Man, talk about anti-climactic.

I can say that my stock 1600 heads had chambers of:
#1 50.9cc
#2 50.9cc
#3 51cc
#4 51cc

I did the "rock test" with the new valves and got these numbers for approx. valve stem clearance:
1 INT 0.0034"
2 INT 0.0040"
3 INT 0.0029" This is still in the range for new parts.
4 INT 0.0050" This one shows the guide to be about 25% worn.

1 EX 0.0071" About 50% worn
2 EX 0.0040"
3 EX 0.0080" This one is about 75% worn
4 EX 0.0070"

Yeah, I know. It's stupid to go to all this trouble and not put new guides in. But reworking these heads added up to more than I was willing to invest in them at this point. I spent about $60 on new valves and springs in hopes of buying a little time until I decide what engine I'll go with.

On a previous project, where I had a pretty tight budget, I learned to check every part against the specs for wear. Sure, it's great if you can afford to just replace every part with a new one. But if a part is still within the acceptable range, I have no problem with reusing it. That's what those specs are for. Even that #3 exhaust valve hasn't reached the replace point of 0.093". It sure is close though.