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mygreenbus
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Joined: February 14, 2007
Posts: 1154
Location: Palm Coast, FL
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 Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: Oil Pan (strainer) Cover on Type 4 Motor |
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What is the purpose of the "oil pan cover" on a Type 4 Motor? On a Type 1 the oil screen filter is in there. I am looking at the Haynes manual and it really doesn't explain. Thanks. 
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: Type 4 oil strainer |
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To link to this post
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| [url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7488157#7488157]Type 4 oil strainer[/url] |
Every Type IV engine owner should know this!!!
If you over tighten the Oil Strainer bolt, you will brake the engine case!
There is a Oil strainer in there.
TORQUE THE STRAINER BOLT TO NO MORE THAN 9 FT. LBS.
Last edited by Tcash on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:23 am; edited 6 times in total |
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mygreenbus
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Joined: February 14, 2007
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Location: Palm Coast, FL
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Nice pic thanks. I think it's time to lose the strainer. no need it seems with a quality oil filter. I use System1 filters.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mywifesghia wrote: |
| Nice pic thanks. I think it's time to lose the strainer. no need it seems with a quality oil filter. I use System1 filters. |
Uh....no. There are a zillion ways to get a chunk of this or that into your oil either from flashing breaking off of a, part of the case, debris from an oil galley, a washer dropped into the case during maintenance, a chip of metal from the edge of a cam gear that would otherwise not cause huge issues.......until it gets sucked into the oil pump.
I mean....is keeping the strainer causing issues because of weight or oil displacement? Ray |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mywifesghia wrote: |
| I think it's time to lose the strainer. no need it seems with a quality oil filter. |
The canister filter is downstream of the oil pump. The strainer pickup is upstream of the oil pump, and it protects the oil pump. If a small piece of debris jams the pump, the pump will lock up, taking out the cam gear, taking out the engine. If you look at most cars their oil pump has some form of screen over the pick up. Also - and this is a big also, if you look at both a high quality filter, and the T4 filter mount they have a small valve in them. Those valves are called "bypass valves." Anytime the oil pressure across the filter is more than X pounds they open and all the oil bypasses the filter. What this means is that on a given drive, maybe 70% - 80% of the oil in the galleries is being filtered. That strainer stops things like RTV pieces that break off etc., from making their way to the galleries and oil cooler etc. if the bypass is open.
T4 lacks the strainer if you take it out
strainer examples:
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Malokin Martin
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Joined: August 19, 2007
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Location: E-burg
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It would be interesting to see, anecdotally, how long it would take to grenade an engine doing this. You should totally try it |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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The valve seals end up down there also.
Good Luck
Tcash
Last edited by Tcash on Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:48 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Since Type 4 engines have very little in the way of bottom end problems why would anyone want to start changing things around? This crank has about 270K miles total in a bus and either 100 or 150K miles in a 412 prior to that. It has never been ground and is still in spec so can be used again without machine work.
If you want to improve on stock then run synthetic oils, have a crankcase ventilation system that works as well or better than stock, keep your engine cooling system in A-1 shape, and make sure your thermostat system works well. Keeping your engine in good tune is also pretty much a given for long engine life.
If you are running 7000 rpms and are worried about flow loss, then use a thinner oil. |
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Tcash
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mygreenbus
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Location: Palm Coast, FL
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:44 am Post subject: |
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All good stuff. That's why I asked.
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oscarsnapkin
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Joined: October 22, 2013
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Do most of you clean the screen with every oil change? It scares the crap out of me as I am notorious for over-torquing bolts. Even replacing the drain plug with a high quality torque wrench scares me, seems like I'm gonna strip it.
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Malokin Martin
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Location: E-burg
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| oscarsnapkin wrote: |
| Do most of you clean the screen with every oil change? It scares the crap out of me as I am notorious for over-torquing bolts. Even replacing the drain plug with a high quality torque wrench scares me, seems like I'm gonna strip it. |
if you do your own oil changes, bicycle inch/lb beams work great and are a little more accurate in the 9ft/lbs range
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SGKent
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| oscarsnapkin wrote: |
| Do most of you clean the screen with every oil change? |
no. Just drain it via the oil plug. I check the strainer once in a great while. You can also pull the inspection plate, or get a tool that cuts open canister filters if you want to inspect what the filter is catching.
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| oscarsnapkin wrote: |
| Do most of you clean the screen with every oil change? It scares the crap out of me as I am notorious for over-torquing bolts. Even replacing the drain plug with a high quality torque wrench scares me, seems like I'm gonna strip it. |
VW finally eliminated the access to the screen on the Vanagon WBXer engine. I haven't heard any Vanagon owners complaining about not having access or ever having the screen get clogged. An inspection on purchase, on the first couple of oil changes after a rebuild, and once every 100K miles is probably sufficient. I have used a 1/4 torque wrench once on that bolt and felt that that tightened it far tighter than it should have been. To me 9 ft*lbs seem like it might be too much.
Using a 10.9 bolt for the horizontal case bolt the cover stud hangs from verses the original 8.8 bolt seems to me to be better as well. The 8.8 bolt bends too easily which begins to stress the case. |
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I check about every 15k miles....3-4 oil changes. Its a good habit and with normal wear, usually at worst you find a fine film....very fine....of silt on the plate. A combination of carbon/soot from blowby, worn beakng particles and dirt that is too fine for filters and is no real issue to the engjne. Its good to keep tabs on.
Adhere the bottom gasket to the bottom of the strainer with a thin film of Permatex copper and the top gasket ro the top of the strainer with a thin film of Permatex copper. Let them dry overnight. Clean up an excess at edges.
No RTV on the cover or the case at all.
Oil the faces of both gaskets each time and this set up will last the life of the engine....without having to change gaskets each time you check. It does not leak. Ray |
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SGKent
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| No RTV ...or the case at all.. Ray |
Ray - the VW sealant in the 1990 TB for the cylinder to case is RTV. "adhesive D 000 400 at foot of cylinder" D 000 400 is Elring Dirko RTV .
http://web.archive.org/web/20020613102944/http://www.dolphinsci.com/techbull.html
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what you are referring to.... with regard to what I posted. But that is nice to know. Thank you.
What I was implying in that post.....is that in this seal stack up...there is no need for RTV on either the case side or the outer lid side. I am not gluing the gaskets to either the case or the lid.
in this manner the strainer, comes out flean wach time and allows a slight spin of the gasket/strainer stackup each time so that the RTV or gasket face does not get abraded or torn. This stackup has lasted an easy 100k miles more than once with no leaks.
You, could use an, adhesive for the gasket and strainer assembly just as easily. I use the RTav and make note not to put pressure on the stack and squeeze out what little RTV is between the gaskets and strainer until it, dries...because that extra little squeezability of the Ratav helps to seal the stack and keep tensioj on it considering how little torque it uses. |
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PITApan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:35 am Post subject: |
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back in the day, oil came in round cardboard cans with metal ends. Everybody had a punch spout for dispensing the oil. If you didn't keep your spout cleaned and bagged, it was a great way to introduce chunks into the oil. These days with plastic oil containers it's easier, just wipe the bottle before using. But if you use a funnel you are back to the clean-'n'-bag it routine.
You also need to wipe your dipstick with something clean, not the grubby wipe rag stuffed in a corner of the engine compartment.
My T4 has a screen in it, but the way it fits tightly on the central shaft makes me wonder if it's stock or adapted. Very difficult to remove. However inspecting the cover for sludge can be a great way to tell what gauze filters aren't worth. The dirt they pass ends up as sludge in the bottom of the oil pan. |
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SGKent
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Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
I'm not sure what you are referring to.... with regard to what I posted. But that is nice to know. Thank you.
What I was implying in that post.....is that in this seal stack up...there is no need for RTV on either the case side or the outer lid side. I am not gluing the gaskets to either the case or the lid.
in this manner the strainer, comes out flean wach time and allows a slight spin of the gasket/strainer stackup each time so that the RTV or gasket face does not get abraded or torn. This stackup has lasted an easy 100k miles more than once with no leaks.
You, could use an, adhesive for the gasket and strainer assembly just as easily. I use the RTav and make note not to put pressure on the stack and squeeze out what little RTV is between the gaskets and strainer until it, dries...because that extra little squeezability of the Ratav helps to seal the stack and keep tensioj on it considering how little torque it uses. |
I was just clarifying that RTV is used on the cylinder barrels to case. Other than that I am not aware of it being used anywhere else on the engine unless the anaerobic Loctite used in lieu of an oil pump gasket could be counted. I concur that none is used on the strainer cover.
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Vanapplebomb
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