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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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 Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: degree pulley ring timing |
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I don't want to go through the hassle of removing my pulley to replace it with the degree marked ones.. Cip1 sells c13-8738 stock replacement ring 6 3/4" that epoxys on...Worth it? will it fit?(1600dp) anybody try one of these?
$23 to save on the hassle of taking off my old one and putting a cheap looking likely made in china one |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I don't want to go through the hassle |
Have you ever removed a type 1 pulley? Last one I did took about 45 seconds. They can be harder if they are on tight but epoxying on a ring seems to be a huge hassle in comparison.
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I don't want to go through the hassle |
Have you ever removed a type 1 pulley? Last one I did took about 45 seconds. They can be harder if they are on tight but epoxying on a ring seems to be a huge hassle in comparison. |
Indeed i have..And it took longer than 45 seconds,I don't really like the look of the fancy alloy ones, besides my belt tension is perfect right now as is everything nicely painted..don't want to muck around with anything if i don't have to |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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For me, having a degreed pulley makes timing and valve adjustment easier and more accurate. If you glue a ring onto a stock pulley, you'd better be sure you have it in the right place.
_________________
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| For me, having a degreed pulley makes timing and valve adjustment easier and more accurate. If you glue a ring onto a stock pulley, you'd better be sure you have it in the right place. |
That's the plan haha.. i'm wondering if these flat rings will even work on a stock pulley or are the more geared for replacement of aftermarket flat style pulleys |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76935
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Why not just get a timing light where you can dial in the advance. That way you only need a TDC mark.
Degree pulleys are no longer needed.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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babysnakes
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008
Posts: 7107
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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From CIP1
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| After many years of service - it is very common for the degree markings to wear off. Now you don't have to replace your worn or scratched pulley - just replace the degree ring. |
The part in question is for a pulley already with a degree ring. One that has a flat surface on the edge. A stock pulley does not fit the bill.
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| babysnakes wrote: |
From CIP1
| Quote: |
| After many years of service - it is very common for the degree markings to wear off. Now you don't have to replace your worn or scratched pulley - just replace the degree ring. |
The part in question is for a pulley already with a degree ring. One that has a flat surface on the edge. A stock pulley does not fit the bill.
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That's what I'm figuring, I've always just used a standard timing light with the notches on stock pulley without any trouble....Who can recommend an after market degree wheel brand (preferably black) that's not gonna be a fortune.. I can spend $80+ easier somewhere else on the bus |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Find TDC on the OG pulley and file a notch in it. Paint the notch with a bit of white paint. Do a search on TheSamba to find out how to measure idle degrees and the max advance degrees for your engine. File notches at those points and paint them also. No need to remove the pulley or for a degree pulley. No problems with glueing on a degree ring correctly. No problems with a timing light. Put the money in the bank.
Your OG pulley might have a dimple at TDC and various notches. Those notches may or may not be accurate and the dimple is about 6 degrees wide. TDC should be 90 degrees from the keyway slot in the OG pulley.
Caveat: there are many different OG pulleys, OG notches and PO notches.
Aloha
tp |
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mine has the standard notch at TDC and the one at the left for 5 atdc and the two little ones for 7.5 and 10 btdc to the right... never had any trouble with this... would like to have the accuracy for checking 28 degrees at 3500 rpm and setting dwell etc |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Caveat: there are many different OG pulleys, OG notches and PO notches.
Which have been swapped back and forth over the years. Sometimes I find it pretty easy to locate TDC and the timing marks on an original pulley. Other times I find it quite difficult. A degreed pulley for $40 is well worth it in my opinion.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76935
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| A degreed pulley for $40 is well worth it in my opinion. |
I've seen a few aftermarket degree pulleys where the markings are a few degrees off. I've also seen cheap pulleys what are too loose and move around over time.
EMPI
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
Last edited by Glenn on Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| fes wrote: |
| Mine has the standard notch at TDC and the one at the left for 5 atdc and the two little ones for 7.5 and 10 btdc to the right... never had any trouble with this... would like to have the accuracy for checking 28 degrees at 3500 rpm and setting dwell etc |
You can find 28 degrees from TDC by measuring along the circumference of the OG pulley. I've done that after finding the correct length with TheSamba search.
Aloha
tp |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| aeromech wrote: |
Caveat: there are many different OG pulleys, OG notches and PO notches.
Which have been swapped back and forth over the years. Sometimes I find it pretty easy to locate TDC and the timing marks on an original pulley. Other times I find it quite difficult. A degreed pulley for $40 is well worth it in my opinion.
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yes Gary but he has already decided no one elses opinion counts. Multiple people here with lots of VW and mechanical knowledge have given him alternatives but they are being ignored. Besides - I want to see what damage one of those metal rings does flying around the engine compartment like a buzz saw when it comes off. And, if he really didn't want a hassle he would have found a degree wheel image online, printed it to fit, and marked 28 degrees on the pulley. It isn't like they are hard to find. https://www.google.com/search?q=degree+wheel&b...CAcQ_AUoAg
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76935
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
| fes wrote: |
| Mine has the standard notch at TDC and the one at the left for 5 atdc and the two little ones for 7.5 and 10 btdc to the right... never had any trouble with this... would like to have the accuracy for checking 28 degrees at 3500 rpm and setting dwell etc |
You can find 28 degrees from TDC by measuring along the circumference of the OG pulley. I've done that after finding the correct length with TheSamba search.
Aloha
tp |
Or print this and mark your stock pulley.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| aeromech wrote: |
Caveat: there are many different OG pulleys, OG notches and PO notches.
Which have been swapped back and forth over the years. Sometimes I find it pretty easy to locate TDC and the timing marks on an original pulley. Other times I find it quite difficult. A degreed pulley for $40 is well worth it in my opinion.
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yes Gary but he has already decided no one elses opinion counts. Multiple people here with lots of VW and mechanical knowledge have given him alternatives but they are being ignored. Besides - I want to see what damage one of those metal rings does flying around the engine compartment like a buzz saw when it comes off. And, if he really didn't want a hassle he would have found a degree wheel image online, printed it to fit, and marked 28 degrees on the pulley. It isn't like they are hard to find. https://www.google.com/search?q=degree+wheel&b...CAcQ_AUoAg |
Easy there big fella! I was only asking if anyone had experience with this epoxy rings.. read further down on the posts and you will see that i have agreed that they probably wont work and and have asked for input on a decent brand for a reasonable cost |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've seen a few aftermarket degree pulleys where the markings are a few degrees off.
This worries me as well since any $40 pulley will be from China. The thing is I don't know of any easy way to find TDC accurately. I'm pretty sure that an OG pulley that had a TDC mark would be accurate. I guess a person could stack them and try and check the numbers that way. Also, as far as using a distance measured from TDC to find 28 degrees I've tried that as well with unsure results. Pretty much any engine I do a lot of work on usually gets a degreed pulley installed. Oh, and I do also have an advance timing light. That only works when you know where TDC is plus it doesn't help at all with valve adjustments.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Or print this and mark your stock pulley.
I think I tried doing just that but first you run into a problem when printing it when it isn't the same size as the pulley. Then, unless you remove the pulley and mark it on the bench it's just a crap shoot that you'll get things lined up perfectly when it's in place. If I was going to go to the trouble to remove a pulley I'd just install a degreed one. Even though I don't trust Chinese parts I will say that as far as I know I've never had a problem using an aftermarket degreed pulley when doing tune ups.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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fes
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 999
Location: Prince Edward Island
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| So what brand are you running Aeromech? |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16970
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to admit this but the last one I bought for a customer was an EMPI. At $40 it was something I felt they could afford. Other customers of mine in the past have received more expensive pulleys. Companies like BMD Pulleys come to mind.
http://www.bmdpulleys.com/
I believe I've purchased them from SCAT as well.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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