delicate subject, I need opinions and fast

[ftp2leta]

Life is not always easy money wise.

I have completely finished an engine conversion a month ago and can't get my money.
Not even half paid. It never happened in 6 years. Not a good time, bad communication. It as been going on for almost a month. I had it.

I simply feel like removing the conversion and using it in an another more urgent customer.

I'm so not happy

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
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Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[syncroluvr]

Now you have another van! Mais voyons! You may have to put a lien on it. Even then, your terms are very clear
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1990 Syncro Westy with stump pulling 2576cc Subaru

Y2K V6 Passat

Calcandi Leviter

[mrshrimp]

Ive worked in/worked for all types of residential contracting in the past, so have experienced what you are talking about a bunch of times. If you have been fair and patient, then pick a deadline, a specific date, and let them know you will be removing the conversion if not paid by that date. Im sure your honest and fair, and more than likely if they communicated the $ issues with you there could have been a compromise, maybe a payment plan, whatever. Everybody has been there at some point. But if they cant even get to that point, in regards to communication, then I think most would run out of patience like you have.

[BavarianWrench]

Follow your heart! You always seem to do the right thing. Pulling the engine will result in a loss of time. It will be an R&R for free. It is all about the communication. Maybe the client will understand you are not a bank and can not float the repair, and get funds from family?. I hate the route of documenting communication and requesting payment for vehicle or storage fees will apply. We can not tell you what to do. You need to have a good conversation with your client. Try not to loose your labor. Good Luck Man! Year end can be a bitch!

[Sixray]

I work in a customer service based field. My call on this would be to make every attempt to contact the customer. If you reach them, explain the urgency of the situation and advise them of your concern. If the can't do it or they make an excuse advise them that you will be more than happy to complete the work when they are able to pay you but business needs require you to start work on other projects until then. It's only a reasonable request. If the throw a fit, tough. The car business has no time for flakes.
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1991 Vanagon Carat- Bordeaux red
2003 Golf MKIV 2.0- Reflex Silver

[insyncro]

Since you have not been paid, at all, you own the parts and have logged the hours installing.

I would also itemize the entire work order for parts and labor for the original conversion.
Drop it off to your lawyer of choice and do not communicate with the van owner at all.
Let them communicate with the lawyer at this point.

From the day the lawyer gets involved, start charging the client storage of the van as well.

They will get the picture very fast

Move on from this and do not let it tie up your shop, your income or have an effect on your personal morale.

From now on...half down, at a minimum for all work, including materials, before ANY work is started and DO NOT buy parts for clients with your own money.

Happy Holidays Ben.

edited after reading TenCent's post.

[dobryan]

That bites.

If things don't go well be sure to send them a registered letter advising them of your attempts to reach a satisfactory resolution and actions that will be taken. You don't want to have to defend a verbal contract in court if it comes to that.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[syncrodoka]

I have come across many cars that were sold on a lein hold by a mechanic for repairs that weren't paid for. If the client wants their vehicle back it is in their best interest to pay for the repairs quickly before storage fees accrue to the point that they lose the vehicle.

[MarkWard]

In Florida you could lien it and once you own it sell it on as a completed conversion. Not sure about your neck of the woods. Probably need local advice. Bummer to hear. Good news is you have the van and possession is 9/10ths of the law. I would not put it back to it's original condition. That is way to much work.
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☮️

[BavarianWrench]

Hello Ben
If I sense this correctly you need funds for your next client/project immediately? A lein takes time unfortunately. What may help you is if you have a conversation with your upcoming work, advise them of the bind you are in and see if they can pay some or all of the repair in advance. Then you can tackle your non payment problem efficiently. I have no idea what your laws are. The other thing is let your client know you plan to gain possession of their van for non payment. At that point they get nothing. Maybe they let you post it and sell it for them. It can get you a commission and payment for your work. Just some options to keep you moving.

[tencentlife]

If you're a professional and a legitimate business, which you purport to be and not some shade-tree operation, then act like it. You probably have a mechanic's lien provision in law as we do here. Apply for and execute your protections under the law. Apply for the lien, send notice by registered mail, have no further communications or negotiations with the customer, publish the imminent seizure as required by law, and if they don't pay in full by the appointed date, take their title, and do with the vehicle as you see fit, at that point you own it lock, stock and barrel and you should never look back. By no means alter the vehicle from its present state, leave the work completed as it was ordered by the customer. Just write an honest, accurate, comprehensive RO and begin adding storage fees by the day, this will help your case when you apply for the lien. I've worked in shops where this had to be done several times. It's no big deal.

We work honestly and do our best to deliver what we promise on time; the law provides recourse for cases where customers don't take their side of a transaction as seriously as we have to, and instead pretend that we have some sugar momma who pays our rent, buys our food, pays the doctor's bill, pays all the parts and supplies and utilities, etc.
_________________
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Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is kryptonite to doctrine.

[insyncro]

TenCent is right and I will edit my post about removing the conversion.

I think we are both saying about the same thing.

My mistake about the removal of anything.

Live and learn and protect yourself in business.

[kalispell365]

As a shop owner, I have been through this as well. My only other bit of advice is this. Be sure and either secure the vehicle by somehow locking it indoors or disable it in whatever clever way only you know. Also, if it is outdoors, block it in so that the customer cannot send a tow truck to remove it. A tow truck cannot touch another persons car legally to gain access to the van. Then go at it legally. Sometimes even the threat of legal action will produce results. This person is not your friend OR customer at this juncture.

When I get the feeling that my payment is delayed/ not coming, I store the vehicle at night indoors on my lift with another vehicle locked up directly underneath....I learned this lesson the hard way!
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1983 Diesel Vanagon Westfalia chassis with Subaru 2.2l

[ftp2leta]

First tank you all! I do appreciate the time you took to post.

A few point, yes I need his money RIGHT now for other job has I already spent a lot on engine and parts... or, his ready to install engine.

I'm a small one men show shop now, so I'm far from being rich. Just doing OK. Conversion my way still has a high cost price tag. His money is not even covering that, far from it.

Yes we have text communication and some phone, he doesn't have an e-mail and his not found of Internet. It's always I'll see what I can do... me wait and wait. I just lost a month because of him now, I think I have been patient enough. One van need to be gone for the 10 and he want to come pick his van on the 10 with the suppose money. NO WAY it's working.

All promise money never came, check sent to wrong address, Interact transfer not working. Money was supposed to be send last Friday, never came. Text him no answer, the only time he will reply is when I tell him that I will remove his engine...

No such law on lien in Canada of what I know and I don't want to go there.

For you guys it may sound like a big deal removing the conversion but not for me, I will leave the colling system, harness and all other little thing as all other van have been already converted in the engine bay.

It's no big deal at all for me, later I will just push one in in half a day.

It was a hard year for me and I want to put it behind.

Some months all is fine and I could have waited, not now. My provider can't wait for my money. I have 2000$ deposit on 5 engine... that is 10K only for engine not fully paid.

Never a finish job was left unpaid, I so don't care to keep the van for a wile because I have tons of free space at my new shop. That is not the point. Of course as you know me he saw his engine running and plenty of pictures.

I took my decision and I thank you a lot for your reply.

Ben
_________________
Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
------------------------------------------------------
FI part for sale: http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm
My site: http://www.benplace.com/vw2.htm
Subi conversion: http://www.benplace.com/vanaru_eng.htm
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/ftp2leta

[Wildthings]

I agree with others, read up on a mechanic's lien. I think this type of lien goes back to the early day's of sailing ships and made it possible for people doing ship repair in remote ports to get paid. If the repair bill wasn't paid the ship became the property of the shop doing the work, plain and simple.

http://archive.org/stream/cu31924018105209/cu31924018105209_djvu.txt

[KevinsKamper]

Having been in independent custom contracting for 35years I always got 50% to start.....if a potential customer had a problem with it better to find out then ....it at least covers materials and some time should the deal go south.....good luck and keep the van till paid. Kevin
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1990 Westfalia GL
1980 Toyota Sport Truck 4wd
1981 Toyota DLX 4wd
1983 Toyota SR5 4wd

[SyncroChrick]

Just as fyi in Quebec we don't really have the same notion of title/lien as in the USA.

A vehicle is simply registered and the transfer of ownership is done at the DMV (SAAQ in this case). The name on the registration is the owner of the vehicle - there is no separate title like in the USA. That complicates things a bit in those cases.

http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/vehicle_registration/

There is a special court for "small affairs" when the amount of a dispute is less than $7000, but I would think that in Ben's case the amount is more than that. In theory, it is a simpler/faster way of resolving cases like this as you don't need a lawyer.

http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/english/publications/generale/creance-a.htm


Happy New Year Ben!

[Gauche1968]

Tencent has the right answer. Don't take the conversion out. If you do, it may affect your rights. Research Quebec law on this situation and act accordingly.
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[hans j]

http://archive.org/stream/cu31924018105209/cu31924018105209_djvu.txt is the fastest thing I could find. I'll try to look up more paperwork stuff but you should be able to do some sort of lein on the vehicle. I can look up more if you would like, but I will only be able to search for English versions.

This is NOT going to get you your money faster, but protect the investment you have already made.

Make sure you have all copies of what work the customer wanted done and all communications with him. I would suggest calling your local government agency that deals with vehicles on a way to proceed with a lein.
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[davevickery]

If you take the engine out, what are you going to then put his old engine back in and hand him the keys, sounds ridiculous to me.