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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:28 am Post subject: Decoding Bosch Distributor Badges |
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The letters and numbers on Bosch badges were anything but random. I am hoping to build some information here, that will help in decoding possible application on some of the older badge numbers.
For example the 4 in VJ 4 BR 8 indicates 4 cylinder applications. I am curious enough to inquire what the VJ and BR indicate? It has been established that the R in VJUR 4 BR 8 indicates that a rotor with noise reducing resistor was originally installed. The U indicates a vacuum canister. I have a distributor badged VI 4 BR 8, one letter before the more common VJ, why the VI?
It is assumed that the last series of numbers indicates a version number such as 383 is slightly different and perhaps newer than 276?
Perhaps someone has seen documentation that might help in this endeavor? Some of our German friends may be instrumental in solving this little mystery? |
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Porsche904 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2014 Posts: 192
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I'm pretty shure the letter V stands for Verteiler, distributor in german, the next letter could be the manufacturing year (J stands in Bosch language for 1953) the 4 stands for 4 cylinder, right. Here is some more info about Bosch date codes
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279505 |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:32 am Post subject: |
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The V= distributor makes sense. It is typically the first digit. I don't agree on the J being a date stamping as its found on all badges all years. The date code is typically stamped elsewhere on the distributor, most often near the oiler boss which is not tapped on VW distributors.
V= distributor (please confirm)
J=?
U= vacuum advance canister
R= noise reducing resistor installed originally
4= four cylinder application
BR= ?
ending numbers?
T at end = metal points dust cover
Then there is :
VE=
BRS=
ZV=
JCU=
PU vs PAU=
JFU=
Last edited by tasb on Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76941 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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You're only looking at VW models, there are may other and weird part numbers for non-vw.
Decode this
If there's a pattern, it needs to be consistent.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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usariemen Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2004 Posts: 1745 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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V = Verteiler(german) = Distributor
U = Unterdruck(german) = Underpressure
4 Zylinders
That makes sense.
Donīt know about the rest. _________________ Master of my domain! |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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After January 1964 Bosch changed their parts numbering system and at the same time their date coding. In addition the VW distributors started displaying both Bosch and VW part numbers. The post 1964 system is fairly easy to decode because with the exception of the last digit usually a letter the digits were all numbers. For example:
Bosch 0 231 137 009
VW 113 905 205 K
0 231 denotes distributor
137 denotes the type of advance mechanism employed by the distributor
009 denotes the version or application for that particular distributor.
In addition to 137 there were other sub group numbers each having a different advance mechanism modification. 147, 163, 115, 170,172.173,181 to name just a few.
113 denotes the VW model the distributor was installed in
905 denotes electrical ignition component
205 denotes distributor
K denotes the version for that distributor.
knowing this information may help in decoding the earlier distributors. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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There are two distributors used by VW that are uniquely coded. They both are not surprisingly used in 1964.
The ZV/JCU 4 R 3 is the last of the cast iron distributors and was installed only on type III's. It displays the old part numbering system with letters and numbers.
The ZV/JU 4 R 3 is the first of the aluminum bodied distributors. It was installed on both beetle and bus in 1964.
The only difference between the two codes is that "C" found on the cast iron distributor. The two distributors are very different in all other ways.
Related to this topic are the last two VW mechanical only advance distributors. These are the famed 019 and 010 used for racing applications. The above distributors must have been reintroduced some time after 1964 since they have the newer parts numbers.
VJ 4 BR 8 = 0 231 129 019 first introduced in 1954 ended 1959
VJ 4 BR 25 = 0 231 129 010 first introduced in 1960 ended 1960 _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Last edited by tasb on Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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janerick3 Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006 Posts: 1879 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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The "T" at the end of the part number meant the distributor had a metal shield installed inside, underneath the rotor. _________________ Thanks,
Jan K. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76941 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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tasb wrote: |
Related to this topic are the last two VW mechanical only advance distributors. These are the famed 019 and 010 used for racing applications. The above distributors must have been reintroduced some time after 1964 since they have the newer parts numbers.
VJ 4 BR 8 = 0 231 129 019 first introduced in 1954 ended 1959
VJ 4 BR 25 = 0 231 129 010 first introduced in 1960 ended 1960 |
They were "replacement" distributors.
VJU4BR8 = 0231 115 040
ZV/PAU 4 R 5 = 0231 137 005
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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That is one I had not heard before but welcome information. Where did you find that tidbit? _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Here are the early discs
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=846653
Just as the R indicating a resistor built into the rotor and easily switched out the dust covers could be moved from one distributor to another without modification. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Last edited by tasb on Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76941 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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tasb wrote: |
That is one I had not heard before but welcome information. Where did you find that tidbit? |
Because of the newer model numbers I know they were made after 1964. I've rebuilt a number of them and know they are identical to the ones with the older part number.
I also remember going to Motion Mini Car in Baldwin, NY back in the early 70s and being able to buy a 010 brand new for $30. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your help Glenn, I was referring to the information that jamerick contributed about the T denoting points dust cover disc. I too can still vividly recall going to Warshawsky's ( now J C Whitney)in Chicago and finding 019's and 010's NOS on the shelf and at about the same price of $30. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
Last edited by tasb on Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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So some codes it would be good to have translated, from latest to early:
ZV/
JCU
JU
VJ with V = distributor
JU with U= vacuum canister
BR
BRS
VE with V = distributor
F
AS
T = metal points dust cover
Some of the multiple letter listings may need to be separated but they do appear together on the badges. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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tasb The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 6371 Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Decoding Bosch Distributor Badges |
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I just finished a short PM exchange with a Samba member from France regarding a distributor he said was French Bosch. He stated that he assumed this because of the badge having French script. His initial assertion can be found in the date codes discussion on FAQ in this forum.
Why does a German firm like Bosch use French in their badge script?
I am certainly not a linguist. I do find this question interesting. There are some languages that are somewhat accepted as more technical is French one of these? There are a lot of Francophones outside of France. Is this a strong enough reason to have French on Bosch badges?
I do know that Bosch needed to partner with other countries between World War I and II in order to maintain enough production for the firm to remain solvent by getting around allied reparations . I have a 1937 date stamped distributor that I was told was off of one of the earliest VW's. Well, 1937 is pretty darn early for VW!
Lavalette was an established manufacturing firm in France. Bosch continued to use French on their badges as late as 1964. At that point, they switched to English : Made in Germany. Maybe this switch is part of the answer to the above question. Did it make financial sense to use French or English instead of German Deutsch? Was there a business agreement that forced them to use a language other than their native tongue?
If you have any thoughts or insights please share them. Any evidence would be greatly appreciated. _________________ Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse |
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