Solenoid problem in new starter

crvc · Samba Member Joined: April 28, 2004 Posts: 1308

I've got a 1967 bug. The starter is a couple years old. The wiring harness is ten years old. Turning the key there's a loud click. But nothing else. If I stick a screwdriver between the solenoid spade and the large nut the engine starts. Occasionally I've heard the starter spinning but not engaging the flywheel. So it's a solenoid problem?

Right now I've got a jerry-rigged remote starter: An alligator clip to the solenoid spade, a second alligator clip to the 13mm nut, both wires going to a push switch taped to the right rear bumper mount. Would a starter relay solve the problem? CIP1 has them for about $15.

TIA,

crvc

KTPhil · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:41 am Post subject:

First try the jump at the ignition switch. You might just have a poor contact inside the switch. If it reliably starts with that jump, replace the switch. If not, check the wiring and grounds. 10 year old wiring and a recent 12V starter should NOT require a hard start relay.

Abscate · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:31 pm Post subject:

Solenoid problem, yes. The solenoid has to both mechanically engage the starter as well as electrically switch current to the starter motor.

Instead of throwing money at extra relays and wiring, fix what is wrong with your starter.

Your 2 year old starter could have easily been poorly repaired, so it's age might be much older than you think.
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crvc · Samba Member Joined: April 28, 2004 Posts: 1308

Ah, for the good old days when I could find a VW solenoid in any parts store. Last time I tried I was told they aren't available any more and I'd have to buy a new starter. Even CIP1 doesn't list starter solenoids.

crvc

Danwvw · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:18 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a typical VW Starting problem. There are so many things that cause this it's best to try to break down the problem to either Mechanical or Electrical. But sometimes it's a little of both.
Are you getting at least 11 volts to the solenoid? That's a good place to start.
If it's 10 volts or less they become intermittent.
Solenoids are actually pretty easy to disassemble.
1st remove the starter.
2nd Check it that the armature is not dragging, if it is the starter is junk.
3rd remove the solenoid from the starter.
4th disassemble the solenoid (unsolder the solenoid wires from the end cap then it will come apart).
5th clean up the plunger and contactor and check the two solenoid coils that they both have continuity.
6th lightly lube the solenoid plunger and moving parts etc..
7th reassemble solenoid (solder wires back on the end cap) mount it on the starter and test. It should kick in hard when tested if not it may be that the solenoids contactor is not working properly. The contactor is spring loaded and when "closed circuit" it runs the starter motor as well energizing the second solenoid coil directly.
Another problem old starters have is the little brass bushing press fit to the bell housing on the transaxle gets worn and this can cause the starter motor armature to drag which messes up the starter motor armature causing it to draw too much current etc.. This loads down the voltage and if the battery or cables are less than ideal a problem like what your describing happens.
One easy work around to having to change the bushing is to buy a Bosch SR-17 starter which does not use the bushing. SR-17x, SR15 New.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Eric&Barb

runamoc · Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:03 am Post subject:

crvc · Samba Member Joined: April 28, 2004 Posts: 1308

Right now it works then doesn't then works. So first thing is to try starting with the key. The starter labors but then the engine fires. But Later in the day when I want to go home for lunch the key doesn't start the car. But I kept the homemade remote starter in place. With that the engine started right away. So I'll pick up a starter relay this weekend.

Thanks,

crvc

KTPhil · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:37 am Post subject:

crvc · Samba Member Joined: April 28, 2004 Posts: 1308

Danwvw · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject:

11 volts at the solenoid on the 50 wire when cranking is about right! The Relay probably won't fix it but may help a little if that starter and solenoid are just on the edge of working at that voltage.
On VW starters it is always best to do everything you can to insure you won't be stranded. I would Get the starter rebuilt plus rebuild or replace the solenoid and change that bushing in the transaxle and replace the cables and clean all the chassis connections. There are 3 cables and 6 cable connections to be concerned about:
Battery Ground cable,
Battery Positive cable to Starter,
Transaxle Strap cable.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

KTPhil · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject:

Is the 11 volts directly at the battery terminals at rest? Then the battery is not charged.
Is it at the solenoid while cranking? Then you have a starter wiring issue ahead of the solenoid.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:01 am Post subject:

Did you get it fixed?
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rockerarm · Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject:

Hi, the issue to install a starter relay, commonly referred as a hard start relay, has been beat to death for years here. Older cars need some help and there is issues with the off shore china parts. But the other side of the argument is many new autos have starter relays.
You can look into a local rebuilder and see if a minor starter repair is justified.
Bill


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