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wythac
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might add a little different perspective than the previous poster, without discounting anything they wrote. Since the finished product reflects the personality of the builder, the build should too:

After building several cars over the years, I decided that for me, I needed to have my buggy as close as possible to what I wanted before I was able to turn the key. Why? Because I realized that with my previous vehicles, once I got it running and on the road, those "tear it halfway apart again" upgrades never happened...it became a "run whut I brung" car.

Buggies are a little different in than for many of us they are a seasonal car, so we have a few months each year that we can tear em apart and not impinge on our driving season, and I have definitely made use of the downtime each winter, but I am glad that I spent the extra time on the front end to get it much closer to "finished" before I put it on the road.

I throw that story out there for the original poster to consider: I didn't feel in my case that I had the discipline to revisit projects on the car that part of my brain considered "done". I'd still be rolling mine in primer if I put it together and got it running.

If you think you have the right mindset/time/space to get it rolling first and return later to clean up or improve earlier work, that's a great path for you because you'll have both some immediate gratification (a car this summer!) and the knowledge that you'll make it better and better each year after. If not, try to get as much done as you can before you turn the key. I feel that even by taking the extra time to "finish", I still have plenty to do on my car each year.

Just some food for thought.
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buggy Brian wrote:
Jeff,
I know you're wanting to go crazy on the build, and I sure understand that. I've got a bit of things left to do to mine, and the funds are quickly adding up as I consider so many things I want to do.

However, I also want to have a running, driving buggy now (as I'm impatient as heck). If you're selling your current one, and don't want to be without one for the next 4 years, you can consider doing the important parts (chassis, body, wiring, basic motor) now, get it running and looking fairly good, but allow for the high dollar upgrades later.

Right now, for the paint job I really want, I just don't have the funds. The body work and chassis are being done professionally (you know all about that), the painting is getting done very cheaply (for now), and I'll do my wiring, and do the basic motor rebuild.

I really want the Speedhut gages (about $750 for the ones that I need/want), but I've got working gages right now that will stay for now. I also want the Flaming River steering column setup that sbussard has (about $500 for everything), but I'm sticking with the stock setup now.

I'm going to do the wiring with connectors that allow for easy hood removal, and even though it will take more work in the future, I'll be able to have a running one now.

Just something to consider. I know this will be your forever buggy, and I'm feeling the same way about mine, but I'm too impatient to wait until I can afford everything.

Just some things to consider.


I'm picking up what you're putting down....I'm feeling what you're spraying...Copy that Smokey Bear

joescoolcustoms wrote:
They are all "work in progress". Even as done as my Puzzle Manx appears to be, I have a bunch of upgrades/changes that will take place over the next few years.

On one unfinished build I am in the middle of, I will eventually upgrade from a swing axle trans to a 6 rib bus trans axle. During the chassis work, I fabricated all the stuff to do a bolt in upgrade later when I have that $ 2K trans axle in hand. Just takes some fore thought and planning.


This is the reason that I'm going to get the chassis where it needs to be so I can future proof incase I get antsy and use VW before Subaru funds are gathered. When that time comes (and it will) I don't want it to be a major PITA anymore so than the swap itself. I'm thinking the fuel lines will already be run and I will be using a slave cylinder on the vw tranny.
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wythac wrote:
I might add a little different perspective than the previous poster, without discounting anything they wrote. Since the finished product reflects the personality of the builder, the build should too:

After building several cars over the years, I decided that for me, I needed to have my buggy as close as possible to what I wanted before I was able to turn the key. Why? Because I realized that with my previous vehicles, once I got it running and on the road, those "tear it halfway apart again" upgrades never happened...it became a "run whut I brung" car.

Buggies are a little different in than for many of us they are a seasonal car, so we have a few months each year that we can tear em apart and not impinge on our driving season, and I have definitely made use of the downtime each winter, but I am glad that I spent the extra time on the front end to get it much closer to "finished" before I put it on the road.

I throw that story out there for the original poster to consider: I didn't feel in my case that I had the discipline to revisit projects on the car that part of my brain considered "done". I'd still be rolling mine in primer if I put it together and got it running.

If you think you have the right mindset/time/space to get it rolling first and return later to clean up or improve earlier work, that's a great path for you because you'll have both some immediate gratification (a car this summer!) and the knowledge that you'll make it better and better each year after. If not, try to get as much done as you can before you turn the key. I feel that even by taking the extra time to "finish", I still have plenty to do on my car each year.

Just some food for thought.


I appreciate the thought and can relate in many ways. I will get back into something usually IF there is a problem or something that needs attention. Otherwise I am more likely to just live with something that gets me by. Realistically, I could probably have this build done using what I have laying around with minimal expense. I'd have to build the engine, wire it and get some back tires for the Baja wagon wheels I have, BUT it would no longer be anything close to my Forever Manxter. Fun to drive, yes....but not what's in meh head Cool

For those that don't know me (really) I really do tend to lean to excessive side and usually pay for on the back end. Ask Brian about my home theater Shocked
BTW - Brian (and whoever else wants to come over (RSVP Laughing )) Superbowl party probably at my house Cool
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Jeff


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Buggy Brian
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wythac,

Thanks for the differing opinion, as I hadn't truly considered that out loud (but I have a number of times about my own buggy). I absolutely don't want to have to take it apart again, but am going to do everything I can during the build to make it easier to do so at a later time, if I decide the paint isn't something I can live with long term.

tsfr,
What do you mean you go overboard? You think 106" home theater is overboard?? I'm RSVP'ing for the probable superbowl party.
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(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunther) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
Original Home built buggy that I learned to drive in back in 1995 (the one that started my passion).
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Check out my Loretta here: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=3365Manx

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TSFR
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm fortunate to have this sexy beast to drive around in the meantime Cool I'm going to hold onto it as long as I can during the build...or until someone decides to give me enough money to at least make me think otherwise.

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Jeff


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wythac
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuggyBrian: Any road to being on the road is a good one. There are some very practical reasons for making the car easier to disassemble, especially the hood assembly. I used GM style waterproof wiring plugs and changed the sex from one loom to the next to make it simple to take the hood off and put it back on. Good thing, because with all the trouble I ended up with under the hood/dash/pedals/hydraulic clutch, I had the cowl off A LOT after the car was "done".

Some people require the inspiration of having the car running and driving to keep them interested in the project. Nothing at all wrong with that. I just learned with repetition that once my cars would move without a shove, I lost interest/made peace with whatever remained to be finished on them.

TSFR, Looking forward to seeing the progression on this build. Should be fun whether it hit the road in a month or three years. In the mean time your "spare" will be fine I think!
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sbussard
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jeff! I haven't been on the Samba for a while. We've been busy tearing into my son's chassis. Hopefully ready for sandblasting in 2 weeks. I'm here for you to help in any way I can during your build. I don't have any experience with a Subi set up, but many here do. Like others have said, you will always be finding somethig to change/upgrade along the way, and in years to come. I started with a stock 1600cc dual port, and am planning on going to a Corvair motor this spring. My son will get the vw motor for his buggy. Try to make a budget of what you think you'll have into the main components, and then double that number to account for the unforseen. That'll give you a better idea of where to start. You at least have the benefit of building one already. I never had before my Manxter.

Can't wait to see your buggy come together. Did you finalize a color yet?

Scott
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to be really bad about the "when it runs, it's done". I cannot count all those hotrods on both hands and both feet.

What really changed me was building a drag car. A buddy and I talked about it and thought $ 2500.00 would have us on the track trying to turn the world backwards when we launched. About $ 14 K later, each, in the early '90s, we made our first pass with each of our cars.

What changed me was getting a rule book. No way could I get it moving and take it. It had to have all kinds of safety equipment. Spec Bell Housing, Spec transmission shield, drive shaft loops, spec battery hold downs, Spec master electric switch, spec fuel system, spec this and spec that. That slowed the progress and MADE me slow down and basically finish the car. My first "finished" Car! And to my amazement, I won Editors Choice Drag Car at the Bristol TN Super Chevy event. Other than appearance, (which did not change) this car went though about 5 total rebuilds.

Drag Racing is a illogical sport. Each winter I would drop many thousands of dollars just so I could race less, (go faster). Every winter I torn the car apart and changed almost everything except the paint. When I built the car, I tubbed the rear to the point I could put 32 X 15 (32 tall, 15 wide) slicks under it, but at the time I ran a 10 inch X 28.5 tire.

A older drag racer gave me life long advice when I was just starting to build that first drag car. "Build it as strong as the biggest horse power you can think of". He said too often guys build a car safe enough for the power they have, then over the years increase the horsepower, but not the rest of the car and the chassis can no longer take it, then the car becomes unsafe.

Here is Thunder Valley Dragway, Bristol TN in 1999. Running those 32 X 15 slicks, 250 horse shot of Nitrous Oxide, riding the wheelie bars about 75 feet. Building this car was also my first foray into fiberglass. The only thing metal was the rear quarter panels and the roof. Everything else was fiberglass. Also my fist roll cage, first narrowed rear housing, first quality paint job, first total wiring harness, first high tech ignition system. I did everything except the Vinyl Top, it was the only thing I could afford to pay someone else to do.
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Build the manxster the way you want it to be, but, build it safe for that big engine. And have fun doing it!

I enjoyed following your build on the buggy you have now and it was cool seeing it at MOTB.
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Iguana
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool another Manxter in the works.

You can buy a Subie Trans from Todd but you can pick it up in the USA as we provide local USA Support including warranty etc right here in the US of A. Todd still handles all the sales through as he is way better at that stuff than me.

As far as the Engine Package goes I would keep an eye on the Manxter DualSport Baja Edition Build Thread.. we have been working closely with Chris at SubiWorks in Temecula and he is the MAN !!!. What he doesn't know about Subaru's aint worth knowing and we are working to put an affordable kit together.

One big benefit of Chris and Subiworks over place like Outfront etx is that he works on Subaru's all day everyday and uses the factory ECU's and manifolds. What this means is that you get the driveability of a Stock Subaru complete with all the relevant cold start functions, idle circuits and ability to plug it into an ODB2 reader. This a great thing in my opinion.

Regardless which way you go make sure you build your floor pan for the end result so you don't have to pull the body again or bang your head on it while you try to get it working later.
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Buggy Brian
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wythac wrote:
BuggyBrian: There are some very practical reasons for making the car easier to disassemble, especially the hood assembly. I used GM style waterproof wiring plugs and changed the sex from one loom to the next to make it simple to take the hood off and put it back on.


I'll be doing the exact same thing! I know I'll have things I either want to do, or issues to fix under there, and after what I went through to get the hood (all 20 screws) off the first time, I plan on an easy setup that comes off in just a few minutes.

wythac wrote:
Some people require the inspiration of having the car running and driving to keep them interested in the project. Nothing at all wrong with that. I just learned with repetition that once my cars would move without a shove, I lost interest/made peace with whatever remained to be finished on them.


I'm sure I'm a little guilty of both. It's not that I don't have the patience, it's that I don't want to lose interest. I doubt that will be a problem, but if I don't see progress for a while, I tend to forget what the plan is. It sucks, but I'm trying to be honest with myself too.
_________________
(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunther) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
Original Home built buggy that I learned to drive in back in 1995 (the one that started my passion).
Club Member # 4436
Check out my Loretta here: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=3365Manx

Scarlett is getting a Makeover! http://manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Part Acquisition of 2015 has officially begun!
Once I actually order the Manxter Kit I will start my build thread. At the moment the only thing I'm building is a small pile. Dancing

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sbussard
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice!! Are those series 2? The calipers look bigger than mine. Did you get them for all4 corners?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbussard wrote:
Very nice!! Are those series 2? The calipers look bigger than mine. Did you get them for all4 corners?


race kit, 4 piston in front and 2 piston in the rear. I'm wondering if I can switch them since most of the braking force will be needed in the rear...
I found a good deal that I couldn't pass up.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are so nice, you'll definately be able to stop on a dime. If they can't be swapped maybe you could install a proportioning valve to balance them out?
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sbussard wrote:
Those are so nice, you'll definately be able to stop on a dime. If they can't be swapped maybe you could install a proportioning valve to balance them out?


I was thinking about doing that anyway, it just makes sense. That does bring up a question as I've seen it done a few ways.

My kit includes a pair of larger 4 piston calipers for the front and smaller 2 piston calipers for the rear.

Does is make sense to put the bigger caliper in the rear? I think so, but want to verify...that is if it will even work.

I think a proportioning valve works by selecting the amount of restriction to the flow on a single line. If so then I could run both circuits off the master cylinder and I'm guessing I would install the valve inline with the front brakes even if I swap the calipers.

I may need a separate thread on this.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSFR wrote:
sbussard wrote:
Those are so nice, you'll definately be able to stop on a dime. If they can't be swapped maybe you could install a proportioning valve to balance them out?


I was thinking about doing that anyway, it just makes sense. That does bring up a question as I've seen it done a few ways.

My kit includes a pair of larger 4 piston calipers for the front and smaller 2 piston calipers for the rear.

Does is make sense to put the bigger caliper in the rear? I think so, but want to verify...that is if it will even work.

I think a proportioning valve works by selecting the amount of restriction to the flow on a single line. If so then I could run both circuits off the master cylinder and I'm guessing I would install the valve inline with the front brakes even if I swap the calipers.

I may need a separate thread on this.


You will need a functioning emergency brake and if the rears have them now you won't be able to use them in the front.
If they don't have an E-brake you might need to look into setting one up.
State laws vary but if you are traveling across country it is something to keep in mind.
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Locked/limited... same diff

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sbussard
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they are an Airkewld kit, I don't think the race ready calipers have a mechanical e-brake setup. The Stage 1, 2, and 3 kits use a cheaper, non-Wilwood caliper that has the e-brake. PA requires a mechanical e-brake, it's not enough to have a line lock on a caliper. If your rear calipers don't have an e-brake, you could use a spot caliper such as this one --> http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Mech Spot and would have to fab a bracket for it.

Edit--> That URL has a space between the last 2 words and didn't want to play nice. I think I fixed it, but in case I didn't the spot caliper is the last one on this page --> http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperListLanding.aspx

FWIW, mine are dual piston on the front and single on the rear, and I didn't use a proprotioning valve. You'll definately want a dual master cylinder, which I believe is already biased toward the rears, if you hook you lines up correctly to it. Lots of info on the web, most of it conflicting.....

Scott
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Check out my build thread-->My Manxter 2+2
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff,
If you need somebody to test out those brakes for you (just to make sure they'll work correctly) while you're waiting for your Manxter to get built, I'll go ahead and throw them on Loretta when I get her back and see if they work. And if you want to make sure they're installed correctly, I'll even let you come over and help me put them on. No need to thank me, it's the least I could do.

Brian
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(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
(Gunther) Manx 2 # A0202A035E
Original Home built buggy that I learned to drive in back in 1995 (the one that started my passion).
Club Member # 4436
Check out my Loretta here: http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=3365Manx

Scarlett is getting a Makeover! http://manxclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=3745&p=24983#p24983
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wheels....CHECK
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pics!
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