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TSFR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject: Manxter 2+2 #160 Reply with quote

Hello everyone. Every since MOTB 14 I have been secretly stalking these cars, I blame sbuzzard for a large portion of this! Shocked I have also received the "go ahead" from the wife but, I'm not quite sure she has a full understanding of what is entailed. This is going to be a street machine and the only time (god willing) it will be off-road is when driving on the beach once or twice a year. I will be driving it to work every chance I get which is highway mostly (70mph) and totaling around 45 miles round trip. I see us taking road trips and one day driving it to Big Bear.

My First/Last build took around 11 months to complete. This one I'm hoping to finish in 4 years mainly because of 2 reasons. MONEY and MORE MONEY. After this, I don't want to build another Dune Buggy for myself and I'm the type of person that believes; If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. That being said, I am also the type of person that will do as much of the work myself as I can...within reason. Lets face it, I can't be good at everything Smile

This is where we're starting...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

A "reconditioned" chassis. I haven't torn into it yet because there is still a 72 bug body sitting on top of it until I get it sold. The pans are new and the chassis appears to be in pretty good shape.
With that in mind I'm starting a wish list of excessive things I would like to have done...

Motor: Subaru engine, I have decent motor skills and help so rebuilding one shouldn't be a show stopper. I still have to find one that is rebuildable for a price I can swing. I'm going to need assistance on what to look for here and what all is actually needed. Motor, ECU, wiring harness, radiators & transmission matting plate? What years do I need to look for?

Transmission: Hoping to get away with a built bus transmission but need help here figuring out what exactly I would need. I would like a hydraulic clutch. But if I do go with a Subaru transmission as well I will have a 5 speed. will I have to do anything to a stock sub tranny to make it work?

Brakes: I hate adjusting drum brakes....I said it. I spend half the time under the car feeling like an idiot trying to figure out if its supposed to ratchet up or down and honestly I don't want to do that anymore. I want 4 wheel DISC brakes. Probably something LIKE THIS because it will be super sexy looking through the wheels...oh and it should stop me pretty violently as well.

Wheels: Brad (Iguana) had a set in the Classifieds but they are gone. Early bird gets the worm I guess...my worm is just a going to be more expensive Sad

Tunnel Access Panels: I know the one on Turn Key Manx would make life easier, but what else would I need to consider? If I can keep the transmission a bus tranny then I'm guessing I wont have to open up the back. Is that right?

As it stands, I'm putting in the order for the Manxter 2+2 on Friday February 27th so I can plan for a May 2nd pickup. Then I will drive the body across country home to South Carolina where it will most likely live in a box through most of the year.

This is looking more like a 4 year plan d'oh!
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Jeff


Manxter 2+2 #160


Last edited by TSFR on Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there room for more than one Manxster body in May?
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on starting of a Manxter project. They are great buggy to have fun in.
As for a Subaru engine, there are many options. Bruce's own Manxter has a 2.5L turbo engine in it. Tom & Kathleen's Manxter also has a 2.5L turbo Subaru engine.
I have a 2.5L NA with a EMS ECU and harness from Outfront in mine.
Transmissions questions are going to need more info, including size of rear tires height. For the street use a 5speed is very nice for cruising.
The Bus trans is a good option if you are going to use buggy off road as the lower ratio (higher numerical) ring and pinion helps with larger diameter rear tires, not so much for normal street driving. And the transmission gears inside a 002 are the same strength as a Bug trans.
The option I like is the Subaru 5 speed trans. The SubaruGears 5speed reverse ring and pinion make it possible to install it in a VW. After driving the Kick Out SS that was given away, I really like the 5speed in it.
Depending on your budget and how you drive a Bug trans will work. Yes you can install stronger parts inside and change gear ratios too.
Have fun with your build!
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manxdavid
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful before you cut any holes in the tunnel as that's where the vast majority of the chassis' strength is. VW never saw the need for any access holes.
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wythac
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you put even a mild lift on the body, a properly build lift kit serves as a perimeter frame and more than compensates for any weakness in the tunnel that you might introduce with an small access panel. Keep that in mind as your build develops.
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
Is there room for more than one Manxster body in May?

Joe, sorry but the trailer Im pulling back is only 12x6x6. Cant even stack them Sad

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
Congrats on starting of a Manxter project. They are great buggy to have fun in.
As for a Subaru engine, there are many options. Bruce's own Manxter has a 2.5L turbo engine in it. Tom & Kathleen's Manxter also has a 2.5L turbo Subaru engine.
I have a 2.5L NA with a EMS ECU and harness from Outfront in mine.
Transmissions questions are going to need more info, including size of rear tires height. For the street use a 5speed is very nice for cruising.
The Bus trans is a good option if you are going to use buggy off road as the lower ratio (higher numerical) ring and pinion helps with larger diameter rear tires, not so much for normal street driving. And the transmission gears inside a 002 are the same strength as a Bug trans.
The option I like is the Subaru 5 speed trans. The SubaruGears 5speed reverse ring and pinion make it possible to install it in a VW. After driving the Kick Out SS that was given away, I really like the 5speed in it.
Depending on your budget and how you drive a Bug trans will work. Yes you can install stronger parts inside and change gear ratios too.
Have fun with your build!

Is there a specific model Subaru engine or vehicle to look for? I would like a turbo if I do it. Vented side pods are on the list already.

manxdavid wrote:
Be careful before you cut any holes in the tunnel as that's where the vast majority of the chassis' strength is. VW never saw the need for any access holes.

I've read where it helps with running fuel/return lines as well as accessing throttle cable. Would also help to run the clutch line if indeed I switch to hydraulic. I was looking at the Turn Key Manx one that looks really stout. Is that not recommended? I wasn't going to just cut a hole without reinforcing the surrounding area.

wythac wrote:
If you put even a mild lift on the body, a properly build lift kit serves as a perimeter frame and more than compensates for any weakness in the tunnel that you might introduce with an small access panel. Keep that in mind as your build develops.

I have a questions about this, what are the benefits of the body lift? I see a few people doing it...

Like I said, its going to be a total street car with a stance much like Tom and Kathleen's.
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Jeff


Manxter 2+2 #160
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jsturtlebuggy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way that Brad has done with the reinforced opening at the front of the tunnel is very strong.
Being that it is a oval opening and with the reinforcing as large as it is and fully welded in place it is very strong.
It also allow for access to the clutch cable or if installing a master cylinder for a hydraulic clutch.
For the Manx Club's raffle Kick Out SS, I installed a Wilwood master cylinder inside the tunnel and used a custom made Stainless Steel PTFE hose from Crown Performance Products in Vista, CA and attached to the stock slave Subaru slave cylinder. Reservoir for it was mounted to front panel and hose ran from it into tunnel to master cylinder. I did have to make a plate to cover opening out of .040" aluminum. I see Brad now has covers for them.
To make the master cylinder work, the clutch pedal cross shaft was modified with making a eye on it for the pivot pin on master cylinder pushrod and a bracket was made and bolted in place inside tunnel to mount the master cylinder.
To do this modification the access plate in front between the beams needs to be open up too. This allows you to get your hand inside the tunnel.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For carrying more than one kit on the trailer, have Joe make is a double decker to carry one above the other. Anything is possible.
Find pictures of how Bruce and Winnie went to show back east with 2 Kick Outs in the back of their truck.

If you are going to go with a turbo engine, at least look at Outfront website to get ideas. I found them very helpful with all my questions.
The more power you have the stronger trans you will need to handle it. The Subaru 5speed is going to be more cost effective in the long run as building a VW trans that would last would be expensive.
930 CV joints would be a wise investment. Type II and IV CVs would be marginal with a Turbo engine. And the 930s are not that much more in price. I am using the EMPI 930 Race Prepped CVs and axles with good success.
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsturtlebuggy wrote:
For carrying more than one kit on the trailer, have Joe make is a double decker to carry one above the other. Anything is possible.
Find pictures of how Bruce and Winnie went to show back east with 2 Kick Outs in the back of their truck.

If you are going to go with a turbo engine, at least look at Outfront website to get ideas. I found them very helpful with all my questions.
The more power you have the stronger trans you will need to handle it. The Subaru 5speed is going to be more cost effective in the long run as building a VW trans that would last would be expensive.
930 CV joints would be a wise investment. Type II and IV CVs would be marginal with a Turbo engine. And the 930s are not that much more in price. I am using the EMPI 930 Race Prepped CVs and axles with good success.


The Subaru transmission has me a little nervous. It's looking like cost of the conversion and the mounting plates will be $2200 shipped for parts alone to make it work. That's before the cost of the transmission. Am I looking at this right? I understand you have to pay to play, just trying to get a ballpark of what its going to cost.

As for the transporting, I'm flying out and driving a friends Tahoe pulling and enclosed 12x6x6 trailer. I think physics is making this decision for us, but I'm totally open to ideas.
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Manxter 2+2 #160


Last edited by TSFR on Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wythac
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSFR,

I recommend setting your new body on the pan and asking yourself if you need a higher "armrest" (body sill) on your left as you drive. I felt like I was sitting on my car instead of in it, and I had mild offroad aspirations, so I went with a 3" lift. However a 1" lift, built properly, would really stiffen your pan considerably and not make it a "tallboy".

Not the best picture, but here is a inside the tunnel shot of my Wilwood 3/4" master inside the tunnel. The pedal hook was modified to capture a heim joint that was barrel nutted on to the end of the plunger for the master cylinder.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by wythac on Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On bringing another kit back, I was not yet thinking about myself, but, if you could have, you can pimp your services out and cut your cost by 1/2.

I would wager a few people might jump on the band wagon if they could get a reduced trans cost for a kit. Just thinking.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joescoolcustoms wrote:
On bringing another kit back, I was not yet thinking about myself, but, if you could have, you can pimp your services out and cut your cost by 1/2.

I would wager a few people might jump on the band wagon if they could get a reduced trans cost for a kit. Just thinking.


If the trailer was large enough I would have absolutely no problem hauling kits back for the east coast folks.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contact Subaru Gears and I sure Todd can give you a price for a complete trans or the parts needed for the conversion.

With high horsepower and torque that you are thinking about using, building a Bug or Bus trans have any kind of life will cost more than that in parts. Look at what the trans shops are getting now for core charge on a Bus trans.
Yes a VW stock trans will hold up for a while and can last along time if treated with respect, but if you are a hot rodder or have young ones that are going to drive it, expect to be spending money.

I am not trying to scare you, just letting you know.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a Subaru gear in the U.S.?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSFR wrote:
Is there a Subaru gear in the U.S.?


No, they are only in Austrialia. I would recommend going with the Subaru tranny from the get go. I would guess that if you don't do it now, you'll want to later on. I currently have a Type1 Pro Street Plus in mine and really want to upgrade to the Subaru.

What's your engine budget? Are you aware of Outfront motorsports? http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/ This is where the engines in Kathleens's buggy, my buggy and the giveaway KickoutSS came from.

Also, lot's of good information here:
http://www.manxclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=70
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can go to the Subaru Gears website and send a message to Todd.
Brad (Iguana) is one of Todd's good friends and is a sponsor of Brad's Mexican 1,000 Manxter build. He may be able to answer some of the questions you have.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Days like today reminded me of another reason to go with the Subaru drivetrain....HEAT! Its close to being warm enough with a high of 65 and the morning of 48 seems good, but I'm freezing all the time now. Is this what being 40 is all about?

Either way, I want heat too.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I using a Summit universal heater in mine and it works great.
That and seat heaters make for a comfortable drive.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff,
I know you're wanting to go crazy on the build, and I sure understand that. I've got a bit of things left to do to mine, and the funds are quickly adding up as I consider so many things I want to do.

However, I also want to have a running, driving buggy now (as I'm impatient as heck). If you're selling your current one, and don't want to be without one for the next 4 years, you can consider doing the important parts (chassis, body, wiring, basic motor) now, get it running and looking fairly good, but allow for the high dollar upgrades later.

Right now, for the paint job I really want, I just don't have the funds. The body work and chassis are being done professionally (you know all about that), the painting is getting done very cheaply (for now), and I'll do my wiring, and do the basic motor rebuild.

I really want the Speedhut gages (about $750 for the ones that I need/want), but I've got working gages right now that will stay for now. I also want the Flaming River steering column setup that sbussard has (about $500 for everything), but I'm sticking with the stock setup now.

I'm going to do the wiring with connectors that allow for easy hood removal, and even though it will take more work in the future, I'll be able to have a running one now.

Just something to consider. I know this will be your forever buggy, and I'm feeling the same way about mine, but I'm too impatient to wait until I can afford everything.

Just some things to consider.
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(Loretta) Manx # M2940D910E on customized 1970 chassis by Joescoolcustoms
(Scarlett) Manx Resorter #12 (R0012B931S) on 1969 chassis.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are all "work in progress". Even as done as my Puzzle Manx appears to be, I have a bunch of upgrades/changes that will take place over the next few years.

On one unfinished build I am in the middle of, I will eventually upgrade from a swing axle trans to a 6 rib bus trans axle. During the chassis work, I fabricated all the stuff to do a bolt in upgrade later when I have that $ 2K trans axle in hand. Just takes some fore thought and planning.
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