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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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 Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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Thanks, Jon!
Hey, I'm quoting my prior post below, sorry, ending page 5 and edited since you posted.
Can you please take a look again and see if there's anything else you can answer? I added a couple more critical questions.
THANKS!
| E1 wrote: |
Man, the posts on this page in particular are EXACTLY what I'd hoped for to make a rational for our buggy! THANK YOU!!!
To Gears' comment about a "factory 40% LSD," who stocks these (if anyone) and how does that differ from a Peloquin? Thanks in Advance, my questions are rapidly heading to "all understood and answered..." 
Searching for back threads is always good, but as seen here I think personalized questions and replies always yield the best info and includes new developments and posters... so Thanks if you're reposting similar info, it's worth it to current and future readers.
I'm leaning towards a Peloquin without the locker. Doing rough-ass back roads in 2WD sports sedans for thirty-five years -- before buying our bus -- means some, Um, technique has been learned and we never needed a tow, so using the brakes or e-brake to control a locking function is within my skill set. 
Even our stock Vanagon kills compared to that with just a standard box (got us to Toroweap when 600 lbs. heavy on bad springs), sooooo pumped to see what it'll do with a Peloquin!!!
A couple things:
1). Will it work with any standard Vanagon box without modification?
2). I presume a LSD of any kind uses *slightly* more fuel as the terrain gets tougher. You guys agree, and has anyone measured this enough to accurately quote how much mpg is lost?
3). Does the Peloquin measurably affect highway gas mileage?
4). If used with care, is a Peloquin's lifetime durability comparable to stock?
5). BIGGEST CONCERN: On angled roads, sounds like rear wants to fall off the road easier. Sounds horrid, BUT, am I perceiving this to mean there's more traction in advance to prevent skidding at all... and if so, does skidding only get worse due, Frankly, to operator error in pushing too hard to begin with???
THANKS ALL!!! |
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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newfisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| Buy one. All of your concearns will be answered as soon as you drive it and you will wonder why you didnt do it sooner. I will ALWAYS have one in a Vanagon or like vehicle. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9606
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| E1 wrote: |
| 1). Will it work with any standard Vanagon box without modification? |
YES
| E1 wrote: |
| 2). I presume a LSD of any kind uses *slightly* more fuel as the terrain gets tougher. You guys agree, and has anyone measured this enough to accurately quote how much mpg is lost? |
Yes scrubbing = gas burned. But wheelspin in an open diff (and stuck) could be more gas burned. Going banzai so you don't get stuck, is more gas burned, while easy confident driving might be less gas burned. Even so I highly doubt the difference is quantifiable.
| E1 wrote: |
| 3). Does the Peloquin measurably affect highway gas mileage? |
No reason to make a difference. Your choice of tread-pattern and stuff on top, and weight makes a difference.
| E1 wrote: |
| 4). If used with care, is a Peloquin's lifetime durability comparable to stock? |
It's arguably a higher level of construction than the OEM VW transmission parts. Mine was inspected at 7 years old, and there was zero wear anywhere, even on the "wear surfaces". In the 'pockets' where the 'clutch action' occurs when it locks, the black oxide had not even worn thru the peaks of the machining marks. And mine had a hard life, running in a horrible soup of bearings coming apart for much of its life. I would say if you're "not racing", it's lifetime is "forever". I looked at one that was used for 'racing' (24 hrs of LeMons) and it too had not even worn thru the oxide. We worried about the Peloquin's 'metal clutching' that it might introduce metal particles into the transaxle oil, but upon inspection the conclusion is NO, nothing, no wear whatsoever appeared on the clutching/locking surfaces. That's part of the reason I have this theory that it does not 'feather, and divide power' it simply "locks" and ceases motion whenever theres an imbalance. And unlocks whenever the imbalance lets up.
| E1 wrote: |
| 5). BIGGEST CONCERN: On angled roads, sounds like rear wants to fall off the road easier. Sounds horrid, BUT, am I perceiving this to mean there's more traction in advance to prevent skidding at all... and if so, does skidding only get worse due, Frankly, to operator error in pushing too hard to begin with??? |
Not the slightest worry. That's a concern maybe with significant, heavy wheelspin on a sidehill, spinning BOTH wheels. It takes a lot of effort to do that with a camper. If you're on glare ice, on a slope, and without the required finesse, I can see that. I have 4wd and haven't been in a situation like that, maybe the Alaska guys can reply there.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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Man, You All Rock!
This is a big decision I knew little about even yesterday, and one I have to live with a long time (at 24-7-365).
So, thanks to you all I am really close to ordering!
THANKS AGAIN!!!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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ThankYouJerry
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012
Posts: 2271
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| newfisher wrote: |
| Buy one. All of your concearns will be answered as soon as you drive it and you will wonder why you didnt do it sooner. I will ALWAYS have one in a Vanagon or like vehicle. |
^^^ This X2.
_________________
1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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AKWesty
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Joined: April 12, 2014
Posts: 680
Location: Haines, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| E1 wrote: |
| 5). BIGGEST CONCERN: On angled roads, sounds like rear wants to fall off the road easier. Sounds horrid, BUT, am I perceiving this to mean there's more traction in advance to prevent skidding at all... and if so, does skidding only get worse due, Frankly, to operator error in pushing too hard to begin with??? |
Not the slightest worry. That's a concern maybe with significant, heavy wheelspin on a sidehill, spinning BOTH wheels. It takes a lot of effort to do that with a camper. If you're on glare ice, on a slope, and without the required finesse, I can see that. I have 4wd and haven't been in a situation like that, maybe the Alaska guys can reply there. |
For this to occur you need a sideways force and a serious loss of traction.
One example would be to side hill on wet grass or icy conditons. You have gravity pulling you sideways downhill and if you break traction then the weight of the van will cause the rear of the van to slide. With an open diff in this case only one wheel would spin and you would not have a total loss of traction on the rear. With a Peloquin if you break traction on a side hill with wet grass or ice, gravity will pull the rear of the van down the hill causing you to spin around or the rear of the van to slide down the hill leaving you facing directly up hill.
The second example would be accelerating out of a parking lot onto a road during icy conditions. During the learning curve of the Peloquin on winter roads you have to make sure you do not over accelerate while making these 90 degree turns. With an open diff if you over accelerate then one tire will spin and you will maintain your line as you pull away from your stop. With the Peloquin both rears will spin if you are too heavy on the gas pedal and the rear of the van will break traction. This would typically occur if you pulled away from a stop in a 90 degree turn and shifted from 1st to 2nd in the middle of the turn. An abrupt disengagement of the clutch and heavy acceleration easily breaks traction which causes the rear of the van to slip sideways on slippery surfaces. This is easily avoided once you get a feel for the Peloquin.
I drive my van on ice and snow covered roads daily for 5 months of the year, launch boats off of seaweed covered boat ramps, launch my river boat off of gravel bars, haul my snow machines on a variety of snow/ice covered logging roads, drive across tundra to our favorite Caribou camps, pull my ATV with trailer up and down logging roads to access back-country hunting trails, and the normal camping as far into the back-country as I dare take my beloved mistress. Without the Peloquin my van would require pavement. With the Peloquin the van is capable of so much more....
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's
www.CatchTheKraken.com
"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir
Last edited by AKWesty on Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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Chad, Thanks for the good stuff... Details, details!!!
I need the LSD almost entirely for dirt, mud, and rock backroads. So not much snow, but certainly some if our schedule gets a surprise!
Meaning, I don't think we're adding the locker, just a Peloquin... unless I'm screwing up terms again! 
I may well step up wheels now as well. As we need the trans rebuilt anyway, we're considering going all the way to 16" (with the lift springs), and running a Granny-esque 1st...
Thanks Again!!!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16503
Location: Brookeville, MD
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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add the Peloquin and carry a 12V tire inflator... when the road get too rough or when you get stuck deflate the rear tires to 20psi... and you will be happy..
may be a set of off-road tires? |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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We have a little compressor and a foot pump. When we first mounted our BFG ATs, first test was 12 lbs. for the 7 round-trip miles out to Pismo Beach. Color me shocked how easy that was!
But yes, now no ATs in 14" anymore. The Generals are good, too, but we're going to 15" or 16" and back to the BFGs, I love the D rating, lots of pressure on pavement, and Oh Boy do they ever rock on dirt!
I measured my hub centerline to wheelwell, and the driver's side is way under 14"!!! Need lifters and Konis NOW, so we're about to drop a bundle -- but just consider it a rent pre-pay.
THANKS!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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newfisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2012
Posts: 1764
Location: The wet spot--Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| E1 wrote: |
I may well step up wheels now as well. As we need the trans rebuilt anyway, we're considering going all the way to 16" (with the lift springs), and running a Granny-esque 1st...
Thanks Again!!! |
Other than the stock 2x case 1st gear , what other gear are you using in a 2x case to get " granny low"? |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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Not sure yet... my hope is to add maybe 10-20% more rev in 1st, factoring in the larger wheels and tires. I just want to maximize the limited potential of the stock 1.9L getting up crawler hills with our overloaded rig.
If and how to get there is on my list of questions for Arizona Transaxle, Thanks!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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man...you're quite fast... almost like Speedy Gonzales ! ! !
you posted a question on 12/30.. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=669954&highlight=
and now you're hooked... keep us updated on your project... and don't forget the off-road driving skills... I've seen Syncro or Jeep get stuck you know...
hehe  |
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0cean
Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012
Posts: 1149
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| E1 wrote: |
Chad, Thanks for the good stuff... Details, details!!!
I need the LSD almost entirely for dirt, mud, and rock backroads. So not much snow, but certainly some if our schedule gets a surprise!
Meaning, I don't think we're adding the locker, just a Peloquin... unless I'm screwing up terms again!
I may well step up wheels now as well. As we need the trans rebuilt anyway, we're considering going all the way to 16" (with the lift springs), and running a Granny-esque 1st...
Thanks Again!!! |
One way to see the difference between Non-LSD and LSD is to pull over onto the loose gravel on the side of the road. Then do a little burnout or peel out before and after you add an LSD. You can see the traction differences between Open diff and LSD and how there is a lot less side throw of the rear end and faster take off time. I was amazed at how even and better the traction becomes on loose surfaces.
_________________
I'm not a mechanic, I just play one on the internet
Cluster Rebuild:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569920&highlight=
Left for Dead the Resurrection Story Build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=613669
(Number of Different Donor VW Vans Body Parts Used: 12)
(Number of completely different vehicles parts used: 3) |
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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3416
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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now I'd like to have question...
for someone who has a Syncro without the locker (yes, it's an option back then and the very 1st owner picked the power windows instead of the locker... duh !!) ..
on rebuild of the trans.. adding the locker or the Peloquin?
which one make more sense? - personally I think the locker but I ask anyway...
many thanks
Last edited by 0to60in6min on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| 0to60in6min wrote: |
man...you're quite fast... almost like Speedy Gonzales ! ! !
you posted a question on 12/30.. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=669954&highlight=
and now you're hooked... keep us updated on your project... and don't forget the off-road driving skills... I've seen Syncro or Jeep get stuck you know...
hehe |
Yeah, Buddy! We spent years with baldish tires on little Japanese 2WD sedans passing stuck SUVs anywhere near the Colorado ski hills. The world's best auto part is between the ears. 
And yep, we be fast. Except in the Westy, natch...
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6545
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| 0cean wrote: |
| E1 wrote: |
Chad, Thanks for the good stuff... Details, details!!!
I need the LSD almost entirely for dirt, mud, and rock backroads. So not much snow, but certainly some if our schedule gets a surprise!
Meaning, I don't think we're adding the locker, just a Peloquin... unless I'm screwing up terms again!
I may well step up wheels now as well. As we need the trans rebuilt anyway, we're considering going all the way to 16" (with the lift springs), and running a Granny-esque 1st...
Thanks Again!!! |
One way to see the difference between Non-LSD and LSD is to pull over onto the loose gravel on the side of the road. Then do a little burnout or peel out before and after you add an LSD. You can see the traction differences between Open diff and LSD and how there is a lot less side throw of the rear end and faster take off time. I was amazed at how even and better the traction becomes on loose surfaces. |
Thanks, Ocean!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3116
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon TBD Peloquin disadvantages? |
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| AKWesty wrote: |
| With the Peloquin both rears will spin if you are too heavy on the gas pedal and the rear of the van will break traction. |
I don't usually drive my van in the winter but I just had some friends in town who wanted to go for a ride. I had this happen and it was scary as f***.
We started climbing a hill (but not a side hill) on a straight stretch of snow packed dirt road. I either gave it a bit more gas or the autotrans shifted, I don't really know, and the van immediately fishtailed and pointed us toward the right-side edge of the road (which would have been an "over the cliff" disaster). I steered the other way, over corrected, and the van did a complete 180 coming to rest with it's wheels just off the left-side of the road in a small ditch/snowbank.
It all worked out fine and my friends and I have a good story to tell about their first day visiting Montana. But, man-oh-man, it all happened SO fast and without warning. The Peloquin IS great but I think it requires a bit (or a lot) more caution when driving in the snow.
FWIW, I'm running the old style BFG TAs which I never really liked in snow to begin with - not on the van or my old SUV.
_________________
'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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