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busmania
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Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
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 Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: Oil light flickering and general engine questions |
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I have had my single cab for 5 or 6 years now and I have "lived" with the engine and the problems. it runs fine and has been pretty reliable but leaks like crazy. I don't ever drive it above 90 degrees which is the last 3 months of summer here because it overheats. Yesterday the oil light started flickering which is leading me to think it is time to dig into my issues.
issues
1. oil light flickering while driving (just periodically, and this is a new problem, it has always flickered at idle when really hot outside). Sender or oil pressure problem?
2. It back fires a lot while under load or going downhill. However, I find immensely entertaining while in traffic! I fixed this at one point by installing all new exhaust/heat riser gaskets but the problem came back within a couple hundred miles. This leads me to think stuff is warped. Probably time for new exhaust.
3. One of the spark plugs holes has been bored out and some sort of copper insert installed. This always backs out with the plug and I have to tighten it from time to time. Time for new heads? Would possibly help my backfiring issue (warped exaust ports?)
4. it leaks oil like mad! At minimum I will be talking it down to the pushrod tubs and re-sealing everything as well as installing new push rod tubes.
I guess my biggest question is the oil light flickering the sign that it is finally time to take this engine all the way to splitting the case? Regardless I will be taking it apart to address the oil leaks but im thinking a total rebuild is in order.
Finally, It is a 63 single cab. By these engine pictures, can you tell if my engine is correct at all? Obviously the carb, alternator, coil, fuel pump, manifold is not accurate.
Engine Code on case = 0236099
PICS
sorry for rambling... |
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G-wood Todd
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Joined: January 11, 2005
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Give that bus a new lease on life with a full on rebuilt motor. You will be glad you did in the long run. Add an air filter too.
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69807
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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0236099 is a June, 1963 1500cc engine.
If the light is coming on a lot now it could be a bad oil sender.
Or the motor has low oil pressure and is worn out.
Is the end play large? Grab the lower pulley and pull it back and forth.
If you feel more than a little click it's too large.
Backfiring could be the timing or points are off.
This can cause overheating too.
Have you checked that?
Are you driving it with no air cleaner? Bad idea.
Other people will have to comment whether it's worth rebuilding your "0" case 1500cc engine unless that is your original engine but based on your comments:
Yes, rebuild it, install all the proper hoses and seals, and add an air cleaner.
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quartermilecamel
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Joined: April 16, 2008
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Location: ohio
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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1st step should probably be install a mechanical guage on it to see if indeed the oil pressure is low. Could just be it leaks, needs reseal, and other issues attended to/adjusted. I have had an oil pressure light sender installed in one of my beetles that came on solid at idle...freaked me out till I found out what pressure this sender shut the light off at. It wasn't for a beetle I guess cause the "light out" pressure was 20lbs and vws around what, 5 to 10lbs at idle, maybe 15 cant remember. Anyway I installed the stock sending unit and the light operated like it should.
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esde
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Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5966
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Before all speculation about the pressure, what weight oil are you using? |
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outcaststudios
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Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 1732
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| in the old days you could take apart a pump and file it down a bit and then put it back together and it would carry more oil... but i'd wager that if youre not running straight 30 that might be part of the problem... |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24733
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Are you running the engine with heat exchangers??
Do you leave those holes in the rear tin open all the time??
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busmania
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Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Thanks everyone.
I do run with an oil bath air filter.
Honestly, I am not sure what weight of oil is in it as it has been a while since I changed the oil (once a year...it only gets maybe 2000 miles per year). Having said that, I guarantee it is not 30 weight as I never have that laying around the shop.
Heat exchangers are installed but yes, the holes in the tin are no bueno.
I started to remove it yesterday. I think I am going to tear it down to the pistons/cylinders and see what it looks like and go from there. Again, at minimum I have to fix these damn oil leaks!
Thanks everyone. |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
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Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| busmania wrote: |
Heat exchangers are installed but yes, the holes in the tin are no bueno.
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If you are running HEs without the fresh air tubes, the engine will run at least 30 F higher oil temp in warm weather.
Would help to diagnose by doing a compression test.
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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Before you take it out. Change the oil, so you know what weight oil is in it, then check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge. At least then you know that you can just refresh the top half of the motor and leave the case alone.
But, if it was mine, I would do the whole thing.
Gordo.
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busmania
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Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
Before you take it out. Change the oil, so you know what weight oil is in it, then check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge. At least then you know that you can just refresh the top half of the motor and leave the case alone.
But, if it was mine, I would do the whole thing.
Gordo. |
Good call. On the compression...I did a compression check about 18 months ago and all cylinders were around 100. Still decent right? And yes, I know a lot can change in 18 months but the reality is I have maybe only put 500-700 miles on it since. But those have been hard working miles (hauling dirt, gravel etc).
and gordo, nice quote. I once sold t-shirts on tour of a jam band that said "everyone dies, but few truly live" |
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Clara
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:21 am Post subject: Re: oil light flickering and general engine questions |
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| busmania wrote: |
PICS
sorry for rambling... |
Install fresh air hoses. As been said, they help cool the motor.
Run the breather hose to the air cleaner. In the pic it is plugged off. if the engine can't breath it may cause leaks. The breather is the hose that comes out right next to where you put the oil in.
If you aren't running a pre-heat tube (not needed if temps are above about 60 F) plug off the pre-heat tube hole. The extra holes let the hot air from the exhaust into the engine compartment.
Changing to a thicker oil can help against oil light flickering. Use 30 wt, or 20/50. Before changing oil, go buy 4 quarts, and leave the extra in the truck.
How much is 'leaks a lot'? How often do you need to put a half quart in? Every 100 miles? every thousand miles?
Generally oil light flickering is a sign the engine is wearing out.
Where the wire goes to the oil pressure sender, is the plastic part of the sender loose in the metal part? If so , it will leak, and should be replaced.
I see oil in that area, which could be the sender, and could be the oil cooler seals.
Does it need a rebuild? or just a re-seal. do a current compression check (to update on 18 months ago) , and push pull the crank pulley and check the endplay.
Is there a hole in the fan shroud on the right side? Tape over the hole, or replace the fan shroud.
This is the motor we put in my Dad's 63 SC. It was a new 1600 DP Mexi-motor, dressed to fit a 63 SC:
Your crank pulley looks a bit smaller. Or is it camera angle? That will make the engine run hotter, and thin the oil out. What size is it? Maybe swap to a bigger one.
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busmania
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Posts: 1934
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:09 am Post subject: Re: oil light flickering and general engine questions |
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| Clara wrote: |
Install fresh air hoses. As been said, they help cool the motor.
Run the breather hose to the air cleaner. In the pic it is plugged off. if the engine can't breath it may cause leaks. The breather is the hose that comes out right next to where you put the oil in.
If you aren't running a pre-heat tube (not needed if temps are above about 60 F) plug off the pre-heat tube hole. The extra holes let the hot air from the exhaust into the engine compartment.
Changing to a thicker oil can help against oil light flickering. Use 30 wt, or 20/50. Before changing oil, go buy 4 quarts, and leave the extra in the truck.
How much is 'leaks a lot'? How often do you need to put a half quart in? Every 100 miles? every thousand miles?
Generally oil light flickering is a sign the engine is wearing out.
Where the wire goes to the oil pressure sender, is the plastic part of the sender loose in the metal part? If so , it will leak, and should be replaced.
I see oil in that area, which could be the sender, and could be the oil cooler seals.
Does it need a rebuild? or just a re-seal. do a current compression check (to update on 18 months ago) , and push pull the crank pulley and check the endplay.
Is there a hole in the fan shroud on the right side? Tape over the hole, or replace the fan shroud.
This is the motor we put in my Dad's 63 SC. It was a new 1600 DP Mexi-motor, dressed to fit a 63 SC:
Your crank pulley looks a bit smaller. Or is it camera angle? That will make the engine run hotter, and thin the oil out. What size is it? Maybe swap to a bigger one.
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THanks.
I finally remembered why I don't have the fresh air hoses installed. I am pretty sure I went to install them once (twice actually) and discovered where they would meat the heat exchanger was broken so there was no where to connect them. I always 'intended' to weld new male ends but never got to it...I think its time for new exchangers too. are they all the same?
"A lot" of oil is 20+ drops (to the point it runs down the cardboard ont eh floor) after I park it back in the garage, then it slowly seeps. I don't keep track of usage but it is probably close to a quart every 150-200 miles. I just use this thing to putz around town in so I check the oil often, add as needed.
That is a clip on the right side of the fan, not a hole. I believe the pulley is the stock size but will measure. What is the stock diameter?
Endplay - I just went out and I can feel a very slight thump when rocking the pulley back and forth. If I can feel any "thump" at all, I assume that is a bad sign? |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6371
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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There a connector pipes as a stock item no welding needed. It looks like you have a 30 PICT carburetor and you are using a stock 40 distributor. That is a mismatch. Has nothing to do with leaking oil but is a performance issue.
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BarryL
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Joined: November 01, 2004
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: oil light flickering and general engine questions |
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| busmania wrote: |
| I just went out and I can feel a very slight thump when rocking the pulley back and forth. If I can feel any "thump" at all, I assume that is a bad sign? |
Not necessarily. It should clunk after moving no more than .004" but I've gone to .006" before. |
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busmania
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Posts: 1934
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| tasb wrote: |
| There a connector pipes as a stock item no welding needed. It looks like you have a 30 PICT carburetor and you are using a stock 40 distributor. That is a mismatch. Has nothing to do with leaking oil but is a performance issue. |
Really? Tell me more. What distributor should I be using? I have a bucket full of them. |
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campingbox
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Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: Re: oil light flickering and general engine questions |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| busmania wrote: |
| I just went out and I can feel a very slight thump when rocking the pulley back and forth. If I can feel any "thump" at all, I assume that is a bad sign? |
Not necessarily. It should clunk after moving no more than .004" but I've gone to .006" before. |
.003-.005 is spec. On a new motor with good compression you will probably feel no noticable movement with the engine rotated at tdc. When I build a motor I can see the dial indicator move but I can't see the flywheel move. |
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Clara
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:04 am Post subject: Re: oil light flickering and general engine questions |
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| busmania wrote: |
I finally remembered why I don't have the fresh air hoses installed. I am pretty sure I went to install them once (twice actually) and discovered where they would meat the heat exchanger was broken so there was no where to connect them. I always 'intended' to weld new male ends but never got to it...I think its time for new exchangers too. are they all the same?
"A lot" of oil is 20+ drops (to the point it runs down the cardboard ont eh floor) after I park it back in the garage, then it slowly seeps. I don't keep track of usage but it is probably close to a quart every 150-200 miles. I just use this thing to putz around town in so I check the oil often, add as needed.
That is a clip on the right side of the fan, not a hole. I believe the pulley is the stock size but will measure. What is the stock diameter?
Endplay - I just went out and I can feel a very slight thump when rocking the pulley back and forth. If I can feel any "thump" at all, I assume that is a bad sign? |
x2 on connectors for fresh air. #40 in diagram:
Dressing your engine so it cools and breathes properly would help with overheating and leaking.
Looks like the oil pressure sender and /or oil cooler seals are leaking though. The engine has to come out to change the oil cooler seals.
Ah, I see now it is a clip.
Check endplay with a dial indicator:
Or there is a device you can bolt to the case and then check with a feeler gauge.
End play tells you wear on bottom end, compression tells wear on top end.
all 100 psi says it has miles on it, but not quite worn out yet.
Your engine may be marginal, but if you only drive 2000 miles a year it can last a long time.
I keep meaning to rebuild the engine in my bug. About 15 years ago one of the spark plugs stuck in the head and won't come out. I don't drive the car so much, that was probably 20 K miles ago. I only put about 1000 miles in the past year, and rarely go on the freeway. The engine doesn't leak; I have not pulled it since I found the spark plug stuck. I think I'll strip it to OG paint soon....
did you check or oil pressure sender? |
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busmania
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Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Here
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I have not checked the sender yet. Today I plan to change the oil and go for another drive and see if the light still flickers. How do I test the sender?
Regardless of my final decision, I plan to go back to 100% stock exhaust too. Right now it has some crappy header and a crappy "make it work" muffler on it. I will get the fresh air hoses all installed as well whether I rebuild it or just plan to reseal it.
I went out just now to check the end play but it seems my dial indicator is broken so that will have to wait until I get a new one. I must have dropped it in my most recent move. damnit! |
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BarryL
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Posts: 14258
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| On a couple engines that had oil light flicker, all's I did was tighten all the case bolts nuts and the problem went away. They were flickering at low RPM not flickering while going down the road at speed. |
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