Gas heater exhaust pipe

[19super73]

I have/had 5 of these vehicles so far, all Variants, but model years '71-'74 and they all have the pipe out the right rear. I have Canadian, US and possibly a '74 European spec car.
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1970 Campmobile [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-47260.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1970 Fastback 1600 TL
1971 Doka [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-14845.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1973 Super Beetle
1973 Westfalia [url=https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-31892.png]Click to view image[/URL]
1974 412 Variant
1975 La Grande Bug
1984 Vanagon

[Lahti411]

Yes, but i was trying to figure out what these cars had when they were new.
Nobody knows what's been installed and replaced during the 40 years period these cars have been on the roads.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

awesome research!
I knew and have been finding.....so many odd things, things that are either not documented or very obscurely documented...... as you have found. .....especially lately while trying hard to finish the document for the strut cartridge modification.

The very first years of 411.....had many changes and differences from export models it appears. By export models ....I mean export from Germany. These are differences that in many cases are more than just target market and M code differences.

It begs the question.....what does very early heater look like as compared to the later export models like we have? Also....until about 3-4 years ago.....I had never seen the front trunk mounted defrost assist heater system.

As an aside note .....as I mentioned above.....and as a teaser of things to come......I have all of my photos and texts with me as I have been traveling for business over the past month. I work on the strut document every night. It will end up being a bit over 100 pages......mostly pictures.

During all of this....going through years of notebooks on all of the mods and methods that finally resulted in not only just the basic modification....but a very refined modification, I found overall that there were (as I have mentioned before) :
three totally different strut designs from the factory with a fourth sub-version that was early 1974 only as well as special adapter parts made by the factory to adapt earlier strut designs to later factory strut cartridges and vice versa.....as well as the adapter pieces made by aftermarket cartridge companies to adapt to early and late cars.

Going through 10 years of notes spanning 4 vehicles I owned and about 40 I worked on.....it was clear that at the ages the vehicles were......almost all of them had been worked on by a combination of dealer, private mechanics and owners....and most had a mixture of parts in them......and not always the correct mix.

This is what can make such a simple modification difficult for a 411or 412 owner who is not really knowledgeable about minute history of these cars.

So the first 30 pages of this document is parts identification and history. I am still misskng most of the history of the first two years of 411(1969 and 1970). We just did not see them here.....so as I collect that information from some of our European friends.....I will update the document. But there is enough information to allow early 411 drivers to understand what to measure to make this mod on their car.....or simply convert to the later "middle years" 411 and 412 design.

And......as of this week.....I found an AWESOME solution for new ball joints. It will require the making of a simple adapter block of machined metal to go between the steering knuckle and the new ball joint...and to have the taper bores in the control arms reamed to a slight oversize.
in exchange for that work......you get a ball joint that is heavier duty than stock...made for racing and offroad, is fully USER REBUILDABLE.....with all parts available including boots and is put togther by snap ring. The joints are about $80 each. As soon as aquire one and lay out the bracket.....and make sure it fits and works......I will post all of it.

I will repost all of this under the correct thread....but since we are talking about history....I thought it would be useful. Ray

[Lahti411]

You are right Ray, the first model year was changed heavily as the public was not responding to it as well as VW wanted. I've been thinking how i could give you the information about the front end changes i have as they are all in finnish... I have a dealer workshop manual with lots of additional pages that explain which changes were made and why and which parts are interchangeable and which changes need more parts to be changed if an update is required.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[Type4ever]

Many thanks Ray.

I'm trying in English, but technical English is still diffecult for me. I'm also very long Type-4 Crazy and drove several of them since 1983.

The picture of the 69-model is a prototype. One of the first made Type 4. The really reason why the heater exhaust on the Limo must be sideways is the fact when the heater is not working correctly the smell and smoke is terrible. You want that never in your car, that why VW make it this way!!!

On the limo sideways because of the air-intake of the heater/engine is in the back.
On the wagon the muffler ending left because of otherwise in some cases it's getting too hot, when you'ré muffler on the right. It cooling down the air-intake for the engine!! (hot summer, trafficjam or trailer)
On the wagon the heater exhaust a little bit further on the back because of the air-intake of the engine sideways of the car! No discusion so far

The problem now still is that a few people know this!! On the big Type 4 Meeting in Europe we are talking a lot about several cases.
VW wasn't very straight either and with the succes of the type 4 engine in the Type 2, it's not getting easier.
They save a lot of money with one muffler for every car and because the 412 wasn't a succes, it became the muffler of the T2.
Our engines were made in Hannover, yes the VW T2 Factory.

Ton

[Lahti411]

My understanding of this topic a bit opposite...
The Variant (wagon) models had the engine exhaust pipe on the right side of the car because the heater took it's fresh air from the left side of the car. If the cars exhaust pipe was on the left on Variant models the heater fresh air blower would suck the exhaust gases into the cabin.
Also all the part numbers show that the straight end of the heater pipe was ment for the sedans and the bent heater pipe end was for the wagons.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

[19super73]

[Lahti411]

Sorry, don't know how i misunderstood you... Yes in my opinion, all Variant models should have had the exit on the right side, exept the first Variant model year 1970.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

[Lahti411]

I have several period magazines with test drives of the very first model of the 411. In those magazines there are good pictures showing that the first model year cars had a long heater exhaust pipe without the aluminium end cap -just like in the picture i posted earlier. I still trust more the parts catalogues and period broschures and test drives than conclusions made 10, 20,30 or 40 years after the end of production...

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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

[kgarchivinusa]

The gas heater exhaust without the cap was on early early cars.

Variant gas heater exhaust

MY 69 (Sept. 1968) Limousine gas heater exhaust

Up: Limousine, below: Variant
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1958 Ghia Coupe aerosilver/graywhite
1966 Ghia Coupe lotoswhite/black pigalle
1968 sunroof bug savannah beige
1968 VW 411 4-door royal red
1968 VW 411 L 4-door cobaltblue
1988 Porsche 924S Targa alpinweiss

(O = i = O) Karmann Ghia rassig und charmant [hot-blooded and charming] [O o\ i /o O]

[raygreenwood]

That must be a picture from the tail end of the line at pre-shipping inspection.....check out the gasoline pump in the background "SUPER"....everybody getting their first breakfast!
Ray

[kgarchivinusa]

Oldest known VW 411 (VIN 419 000 056) converted early into a convertible, looks like it has the long exhaust pipe.

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1958 Ghia Coupe aerosilver/graywhite
1966 Ghia Coupe lotoswhite/black pigalle
1968 sunroof bug savannah beige
1968 VW 411 4-door royal red
1968 VW 411 L 4-door cobaltblue
1988 Porsche 924S Targa alpinweiss

(O = i = O) Karmann Ghia rassig und charmant [hot-blooded and charming] [O o\ i /o O]

[raygreenwood]

Great pictures! Its really odd. The very first 411 had so many differences. Its almost like they went from pre-production prototype straight into selling them.

But its also not too strange of a thought because this was a very different vehicle for VW.
Ray

[kgarchivinusa]

Hi guys,

I found further informationen in an internal primary Volkswagen document named "was anders wurde..."

I translate the important passage from german in english.

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1958 Ghia Coupe aerosilver/graywhite
1966 Ghia Coupe lotoswhite/black pigalle
1968 sunroof bug savannah beige
1968 VW 411 4-door royal red
1968 VW 411 L 4-door cobaltblue
1988 Porsche 924S Targa alpinweiss

(O = i = O) Karmann Ghia rassig und charmant [hot-blooded and charming] [O o\ i /o O]

[mg93108]

[raygreenwood]

Excellent! I was going to ask.... ..since you noted in your first post that the car was "mechanically perfect/excellent"........I was going to politely ask either how you came tocthat conclusion.....or ......who was working on it before you if you acquired it in ready to drive state.

Glad to hear that a car with a lot of hard work in it has a home.

Oh.....and be sure to e-mail Lahti411 directly. Dont just take the chance that he might read your thread qboutcbuying an exhaust pipe.

Going to be fun! Ray

[mg93108]

Thanks Ray