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Bajaman65
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 469
Location: Borrego Springs
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 Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wish they were a little more forward thinking and angled those 2 holes so they would hold&funnel oil to the shafts. and or add a spring squirter to the tip aera. |
Come on Mark you know that this would increase the machining setups and end up costing the consumer more money for a minimal gain. I agree with most of what you say but for most of us these are Antique cars that we want to have fun with. There is the 10% that are pure Race, most are cheap ass's that want the most for their buck. |
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kadub
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2004
Posts: 444
Location: Auburn, Wa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I would suggest sticking with a bushed CB or Berg rocker setup that provides some kind of pressurized oil feed to the shaft bores unless you are definitely going to add oiling to the cylinder heads, or always be spinning enough rpm to get oil up there via. the pushrods, etc. The new Pauter rockers are splash fed only and the adjusters are hollow to spray oil against the valve covers, I guess? Mine were a little loud right away and I called tech assistance for suggestions. They said don't shim these rockers tighter that .015"-.18", they need the clearance to get oil down to the shaft bore. Mine were over .020" on a few and they told me that's fine, my noises are elsewhere...
My engine spent quite a bit of time idling and putting around below 3,000 rpms, so my right foot is to blame for the lack of oiling. I run my lifters with 3 small grooves connecting the oil paths and no other mods for additional rocker oiling. There were zero cautions about lack of oil being an issue, and I was sure that the "updated" design was mostly to cure the issues with needle bearings and "street" use not supplying enough oil. The un-bushed aluminum rocker bores started going egg shaped within a couple thousand miles on mine. I have to assume if I was pumping more oil up there I'd still be happily running them and sharing how awesome they are. So, word to the wise, additional oiling is KEY to survival of these Pauter rockers. Also, idling is for losers...
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Karl
aka Turbobaja |
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damicotile
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2004
Posts: 1069
Location: WOODLAND CA.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:06 am Post subject: |
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All great info. I will ordering the CB rockers.
Thanks for the input guy's.
_________________
'73 SB
82x94
W-120 w/ CB light weight lifters
Silicon bronze sleeves
Scat 1.25:1
CB H-Beams
Straight cuts
42x37 Steve Tims
44 IDF's
9.2:1
A-1 Sidewinder coated
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bajaman65 wrote: |
| mark tucker wrote: |
| I wish they were a little more forward thinking and angled those 2 holes so they would hold&funnel oil to the shafts. and or add a spring squirter to the tip aera. |
Come on Mark you know that this would increase the machining setups and end up costing the consumer more money for a minimal gain. I agree with most of what you say but for most of us these are Antique cars that we want to have fun with. There is the 10% that are pure Race, most are cheap ass's that want the most for their buck. |
so just how would this increase setups??? there already drilling the holes,these are cnc made, just program it for a diferent angle simple.and what does the age of the car have to do with anynthing???and yess Im a cheepasss and I want something that will last longer and this mod should make them a better product and last longer too.so.. what does race have to do with anything??????what race??? |
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Bajaman65
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 469
Location: Borrego Springs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
so just how would this increase setups??? there already drilling the holes,these are cnc made, just program it for a diferent angle simple.and what does the age of the car have to do with anynthing???and yess Im a cheepasss and I want something that will last longer and this mod should make them a better product and last longer too.so.. what does race have to do with anything??????what race??? |
Mark, no offense intended. They are using a 3-axis CNC machine to make these, yes a different angle is simple on a 5-axis or rotary table. I am an NC Programmer by trade, I guess I did not speak as clearly as I intended. I respect what you say, you are one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I also did cnc programing&operation.but they had to set it up for this op I see no diferent is a angle change. and even if it took another jig or op I would have no isue incorprating it in to the rocker. I dont bealeave in the good enough mentality, when just a slight change can help.I think possiably somebody was thinking like a v8 where oil would run down those holes. there is lots of race stuff that is like this as they are disposable  form function&strength,not a lot ot longevity. jessel says on thise site they have oiling gallys in thier rocker after 1995,but I have some that dont,some that do.my newer mohawk's dont either.I will add oiling channels/grooves to them before they go in my 2393 for my 356. I wish I still had some cnc machines at my finger tips.(wish I had got one for hear at home like I had planed,but life got in the way...in a bad way) It's hard for me to see them doing those on a 3axses machine.I would figure it would be faster & easyer with more axes chopping away  |
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raul arrese
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006
Posts: 1329
Location: miami florida
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Could have been done on a 3 axis but even if it was im sure theres multiple jigs for positioning and the angle could have been easily built in to the jig instead of the straight shot . next time mine come off im gonna take a good look at them , maybe add some mods and look for some wear .
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Bajaman65
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007
Posts: 469
Location: Borrego Springs
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| damicotile wrote: |
All great info. I will ordering the CB rockers.
Thanks for the input guy's. |
Good choice, I have had a set of those rockers on an engine since 2007 and they still look new. One of the best parts is that they fit well and the ratio is spot on. |
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Thing_Man73
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2014
Posts: 70
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bajaman65 wrote: |
| damicotile wrote: |
All great info. I will ordering the CB rockers.
Thanks for the input guy's. |
Good choice, I have had a set of those rockers on an engine since 2007 and they still look new. One of the best parts is that they fit well and the ratio is spot on. |
My set was good compared to the Scat, position was correct and alignment was good, I think the adjusters are better on the CB rockers. |
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damicotile
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2004
Posts: 1069
Location: WOODLAND CA.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I built this engine about 5 yrs ago. It has been a daily driver for my 21 yr old son.
The Scat rockers I bought for it were rough right out of the "box".
They tore up shims so quick until I figured out why.
The sides of the rockers were not machined.
I hope the CB ones are machined. I had to hand polish the side in order to stop them from eating shims. Scat means shit. I shudda known. It's in the name!
_________________
'73 SB
82x94
W-120 w/ CB light weight lifters
Silicon bronze sleeves
Scat 1.25:1
CB H-Beams
Straight cuts
42x37 Steve Tims
44 IDF's
9.2:1
A-1 Sidewinder coated
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yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: |
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It's not always the parts fault. If three shims were used with the correct gap they would not get eaten.
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My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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jfats808
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007
Posts: 5022
Location: oahu hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Scat and CB BOTH have tool steel adjusters.
Like any new part, it is your responsibility to check them for proper operation. This was when the rocker blocks should have been checked along with arm alignment to the valve. It is rare for a rocker assembly to come out of the package already set up. CB performance is the only place I have found to carry thin rocker shims. You have to buy the whole package though and I usually end up buying a couple to get what I need. Ive got about 20 something thousand miles on my Pro comp Scats.
_________________
2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
| Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
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those scats were machined but they were shot peened afterwards.it's up to you to prep all parts befor usage. the cb 1.4's Ive used I did alot to befor using them.but I do a lot to everything. they are a very nice rocker,but I dont like rough stuff so they got totaly deburred&polished,they got lowered about .040 and the blocks were also milled on the sides for side clearance.the oil holes were aligned with the adjuster oil hole,the oil hole in the bushing got a banana grove in it.I dont recall if I dfl coated the entire rocker or not.I usualy do.
I always go over every part.nothing can be over looked.nothing is good enough.as for the sides I start with 320 go to 400 then 600 then usualy 800 to polish them off.I also check to be sure the tip is square to the shaft bore & regrind it if needed so it is.then polish it and then dfl coat the entire rocker. thus the reason I buy the cheep $99. rockers not the $250 rockers because from my exp they all need and get the same reworking.(execpt for the cheep ones also need tips heatreeted witch i also do)
And like yamaduckey said use 3 shims on the thrust side always!!
1 thing I did not like about thje cb rockers was the adjusters!!! they were too hard!! they threw off shards of steel when a screwdriver was incerted into the slot.I did not deburr or chamfer the slot.thats my fault.but there just too hard.I think the heetreet was a little too long or too high or the tempereing stage was missing.
on another note Im using some stainless jam nuts on my rockers,there less than a gram more than titinaium nutsI have found(about half a gram) witch is a good ampount lighter than the nuts that came with them witch were shit any ways. I havent seen any valve float in first gear since putting them on over 1 year ago.witch I sometimes got thinking I was still driving my old V8 carwitch routinely went 85000 rpm. I gess my brain just cant recalabrate my ears&eyes& butt dyno for a vw. no I dont have a tach. |
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damicotile
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2004
Posts: 1069
Location: WOODLAND CA.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I always inspect my parts. For some reason I assumed thats how all new rockers were, a bit rough but these were real rough.
I would have loved to put 3 on each side. Some would allow it and others won't.
I also have a ton of shims. We have a bug shop in Sacramento but their selection bites for the bigger shafts.
The CB rockers are on their way and more shims too.
Thanks for all the help.
_________________
'73 SB
82x94
W-120 w/ CB light weight lifters
Silicon bronze sleeves
Scat 1.25:1
CB H-Beams
Straight cuts
42x37 Steve Tims
44 IDF's
9.2:1
A-1 Sidewinder coated
__________________________________ |
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