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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:33 am    Post subject: sway bar Reply with quote

Hey Folks,

well I got my used sway bar in Saturday and cleaned it up and painted it,
it managed to dry fairly quick (was a nice day here) so I tried to do this install.

I purchased an original style set of clamps and the ss screw type (just in case) from yalls experiences.

well, I had no problems putting on the stock set, but I can see if you ever had to remove the sway bar, they may not take many re-installations before you buggar the slide key.

I also suspended the sway bar from the front beam with a few wire ties so it was close to where it needed to be while mucking with it. with the rubber bushings already on.
(just don't zip those ties too tight, leave yourself some wiggle room).

I used a pair of slip joint pliers to get the clamps to conform to the fit around the rubber and suspension, then I used 2 vise grip pliers (1 large 1 small),
and squeezed, and alternated between pliers till the key would slip on.

I did drill out the rubber bushings like Ron suggested cause they were not going to fit, and that was the biggest PIA for me, getting the rubber bushings on and in the right location.
Since I didn't have a sway bar on the THING to begin with I had to use a yall's photos to make the best fit (Thanks Dennis and MondShine).
Especially for how the large rubber bushing went on and how the keys went.

It's on there now! Very Happy

All in all it really wasn't that bad as to never doing one on a THING before except for getting the bushings on that was a MF! I didn't have a large enough drill bit to ream them out but some grease and the vise and some twisting and I got them on there eventually.

Of course being under the THING for as long as I was I found other items that need attention so more fun to come!

Thanks all for the info and photos and getting me to look and realize I was Missing the stupid sway bar in the beginning! Brick wall

T
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citroen
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you need to add a rear sway bar. You won't believe what a difference that makes you can get off a express way ramp and not drift you can keep the foot on the gas pedal so the cars behind you don't run over you.
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JayC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, does anyone have pictures of a rear sway bar? I don't think I have ever seen or heard of one. After finally getting mine aligned this weekend, it still has that interesting drift Very Happy
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citroen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used a Sway a Way Sway Bar for a bug you will have to cut a little of the reinforcement sheet metal off the torsion housing a little trouble but it makes so much different driving
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: add one to the rear Reply with quote

hey Dennis,

you had to do some cutting to make that fit didnt you?
Shame nobody makes a mount rig for these...I'm not a fan of cutting stuff but I realize you and Ron have the experience and the spare parts! LOL

(Does anyone make a kit for THINGS for rear sway bars?)
Havent seen one but I'll look


Also, The THING drives a lot better with the Front sway bar on, it seems
more steady as the steering doesn't duck and dive on every dip in the road, was definatly more stable in a turn, exit ramp speeds were more stable at higher speed than before.

I'll look into the rear setup....

Thanks!

T
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citroen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did cut out a lot and I know I was not too neat but I started out on day and I wanted to get it on maybe I will make it neat one day that's is what I am telling myself also this is not a show car the speedo turned 22222 today. I built it over 5 years ago and I enjoy it more everyday and it was worth it to cut that out it really handles more like a sports car now. I could not find anyone the makes one for a thing.
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys got me curious.
What if...
the bushing was rotated backward on the torsion bar tube, and a small corner was cut off to accomodate the reinforcement bar? Then, with fabricated clamps, only two bolt holes through the reinforcement would be needed.
Sort of like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


(It would move the sway bar towards the back of the car by an inch or so.)

Just an idea; I'm not going to be the one to try it Shocked
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

citroen wrote:
I did cut out a lot and I know I was not too neat but I started out on day and I wanted to get it on maybe I will make it neat one day that's is what I am telling myself also this is not a show car the speedo turned 22222 today. I built it over 5 years ago and I enjoy it more everyday and it was worth it to cut that out it really handles more like a sports car now. I could not find anyone the makes one for a thing.


>Hey Dennis, that's ok, Research and Development at it's finest!
(it's never neat the first time)
Then see what happens, it sparks more Ideas! Very Happy

mondshine wrote:
You guys got me curious.
What if...
the bushing was rotated backward on the torsion bar tube, and a small corner was cut off to accomodate the reinforcement bar? Then, with fabricated clamps, only two bolt holes through the reinforcement would be needed.
Sort of like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


(It would move the sway bar towards the back of the car by an inch or so.)

Just an idea; I'm not going to be the one to try it Shocked


Mondshine, I'll have to look that this closer while under the THING,
It's a neat idea for sure.

R&D at it's finest! Laughing


BTW DENNIS:

What type of Sway bar did you use on the Rear (was it a beetle "Rear" sway bar) you mentioned a sway away bar...

And:
beside the mounts/bushings what does the tips of the rear sway bar sit on/in?
any bushings there or do they just push against the rear trailing arms?

Mondshine's on to somthing there, and I'm picturing a fab mount somewhat like the fronts, but they wrap around the whole thing and encapsulate a special bushing...

But, all this is fine and dandy to have but I'd need to make my THING scoot a bit faster to go with the updated handling if i did this! Shocked
T

PS: found an older link on the subject as well:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...mp;start=0
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mondshine
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never seen a good photo of the attachment points at the rear of the sway bar; I always assumed they went to the lower shock mount "cups".

If the sway bar must be mounted directly under the torsion bars, maybe something like this would work, if you were to fabricate the bushings.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Or maybe a section of tubing with the same OD as the torsion bar tube welded over the support, so that the bushing from the kit could be used with a giant T-bolt clamp around the whole mess.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I guess the possibilities are endless. I'll bring a big piece of cardboard to Dayton so I can crawl under and see what you guys did. Wink
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mondshine wrote:
I've never seen a good photo of the attachment points at the rear of the sway bar; I always assumed they went to the lower shock mount "cups".

I guess the possibilities are endless. I'll bring a big piece of cardboard to Dayton so I can crawl under and see what you guys did. Wink


X2 on the attachment points on the ends of the sway bar, I'd like to see how that goes as well. The same idea like the front, it's mounted on the ends, I wouldn't think you'd want metal to metal attachment points either.

on the cardboard, LOL don't get too excited just yet, I do like the idea tho'
I'll look into it.

T
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:00 pm    Post subject: bump Reply with quote

Well since I'm doing some investigation, there isn't much out there on THING rear sway bar installs.

So far I've seen 2 samba users that have done it.

Citroen and Mstatedog

here's another asking if this would work. since we're on the topic...

Gary Massin-Ball wrote:
Has anyone ever tried a Type 3 IRS rear sway bar on a VW Thing? The IRS Type 3 has a similar reinforcement under the torsion housing......Gary


Right now, I'd like to know a few things so far,
If I were to purchase NEW, what sway bar would you purchase to do this?
Bugpack has one and CIP has one, that say the fit a THING.
(they may be one in the same) May have seen an EMPI one as well.

any knowledgeable suggestions there?

how about Gary Massin-Ball's suggestion on a Type 3 IRS rear sway bar?
Ive never seen one but it may be a junk yard/used part find.

how do any these bar's mount on the ends?
anyone with photos?
I did a look under the THING tonight but didn't really see anything of note. From looking at the beetle and bus posts, best guess is it would mount to the lower shock mount or something like that.

If we can nail down which bar to use, then
fab the rig to hold the bushings &
know how the end mounts go

we got a rear sway bar!

Still in my case, I may need to do a engine upgrade to make it scoot faster to put towards all this road handling!

Heck, you don't realize how happy I am to just get a Front sway bar after not having one for 7 years!

I think from what Ive seen so far as the mounts for the bushings, that there are a few suggestions out there to make a rig to do that part.

Even those Stainless clamps, there may be another source that has larger ones if needed to wrap around the whole contraption.

Well if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, please post, I'm interested, ANYTHING that would help make this THING drive better adds to driver comfort and excitement!

Mondshine and Citroen, thanks for the suggestions and photos & drawings so far.

T
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Bashr52
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I installed a beetle style sway bar on my Thing without cutting into the braces on the torsion bar. I just used bigger band clamps and the bushing is held tight up against the brace instead of the tortion housing.
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="doublecanister"]
mondshine wrote:
I've never seen a good photo of the attachment points at the rear of the sway bar; I always assumed they went to the lower shock mount "cups".
Or maybe a section of tubing with the same OD as the torsion bar tube welded over the support, so that the bushing from the kit could be used with a giant T-bolt clamp around the whole mess.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I guess the possibilities are endless. I'll bring a big piece of cardboard to Dayton so I can crawl under and see what you guys did. Wink



Hey Mondshine, in looking around for a supplier of large T-bolt clamps, I found a local place they may can get them.
Fastenal is their store name, they sell all kinds of stuff.
And, I'm guessing here but a t-bolt clamp for the above pic if that worked would need to be rather large, I'm guessing 8inch ballpark, well they do sell them in various large sizes.

https://www.fastenal.com/home

Search for T bolt clamps and then you can look at the left side for the size chart, largest is 8 to 9 inches. (if that's large enough) I'm guessing right now.
T
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:10 am    Post subject: got a pic Reply with quote

Ok,

Bashir52 was kind enough to find me a photo of the Rear sway bar end mounts: Thank you sir!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It does appear a small half moon cup would assist to help mount the bushings to the bar/to the bottom of the rear more evenly.

Like MStateDog's install,

mstatedog wrote:
This is how I made mine fit....a piece of pipe, longer clamps...I built the bushing brackets so they would be level on the sloped reinforcement tube and welded them in place.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


dog


Well, a bit of fabrication that's doesn't appear too difficult, this may not be too bad a job after all.
Of course, you'd need pipe, a way to cut the pipe, and a welder....

Nice job there Dog!

T
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costonjs
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron Domeck wrote:
Put my tan car in my trailer and I have black carpet, move it out and had red dust were all the bushing were.
i'm have 2 irs beetles that have 30 year old sway-a-way rear sway bars. i second the finding of bushings that have turned to powder. the remainder of the setups are intact. anyone know of a bushing kit for these bars? i found a kit with hardware at cip1, looks like an empi kit. i just need bushings. on another forum, someone mentioned energy suspension for bushings.
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Sway bar install Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

Just for others future reference, the above link was to my Sway bar install
on a 73 Thing.

I'd recommend doing it, I always felt physically exhausted after driving my Thing and from all the Samba help first realized I was missing a front sway bar. Embarassed

Found one and got the "front sway bar" installed and that alone helped my ride big time but then in discussion about adding a "rear sway bar" I finally decided to do it.

Honestly I was amazed that it helped the ride as much as it did.

The only gotcha is it does not fit flush with the underneath but so much, so if you're doing major off road use, ground clearance could be affected but it was less than 3 inches.

My Thing is strictly road use or grassy fields/farm dirt road use so ground clearance isn't a real issue.

Anyways good luck if you decide to do it, I think you'll enjoy the better ride. I know my back does!

My brother always tells me when I had complained of the Thing's "rough ride"
"you want a comfy ride you should have bought a Cadillac"!
Well, the THING, it sure ain't no caddy, but it don't ride as rough now either. Razz

I AM a new "rear sway bar" fan Very Happy

T
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Sway bar install Reply with quote

Oh crap, now youse guys got me thinking about having to do this. I was looking forward to driving it all summer without having to do major work. Thanks. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: Sway bar install Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Oh crap, now youse guys got me thinking about having to do this. I was looking forward to driving it all summer without having to do major work. Thanks. Laughing


Nothing major about it, couple hours tops on a weekend. Laughing
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doublecanister
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Sway bar install Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Oh crap, now youse guys got me thinking about having to do this. I was looking forward to driving it all summer without having to do major work. Thanks. Laughing


Go for it!

and if you can, try to catch the bar on sale.

any questions or if you need extra pictures let me know.

Be glad to share!

T
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