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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7923
Location: Arizona
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 Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Hmmmm........ Not so sure.....
First VW Westfalia conversion was done in 1951.
Here are the performance specs for a 1954 Type II |
But:
| Dana Champion wrote: |
| I do believe, hands down, that the factory naturally aspirated diesel Westfalia 1600, is by far, the slowest Vanagon on the planet. Just my own personal experience. Great mileage though! |
Dana said "Vanagon", not "Type II". 
The van in the OP is most definitely a restoration project. If you can get it for a song and are wanting to put work into, go for it. While I would never own one, I do enjoy seeing old air-cooled Vanagons still wandering the countryside. 
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Replaced a bunch of fuel and vacuum lines and got it started real easy after I let oil pressure build up with the coil disconnected, but it would not stay running. I used a 5 gallon can of gas and a fuel pump left over from my 1977 bus. Probably still some vacuum leaks, and I couldn't keep it running long enough to check fuel manifold pressure. TS2 or the fuel pump relay may be suspect, but the hot wired ignition switch doesn't help. 
Too many opportunities for neglect and hacks to creep in at this stage to confuse the issue. Really need to replace every vacuum affected seal and test each engine management component per the manual.
Satisfied, I agreed to $1000 for the van and $200 for the other engine. |
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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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nice one mr wasted youth, i've been watching that one on craigs list, if i have where to keep it, i'd have bought it, there's a LOT of potential there, an hour or 4 with a shop vac and a mop and bucket, it's come clean, then you can see where to begin.
good luck, keep posting pictures of your progress, and ignore the nay sayers 
_________________
lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| rubbachicken wrote: |
nice one mr wasted youth, i've been watching that one on craigs list, if i have where to keep it, i'd have bought it, there's a LOT of potential there, an hour or 4 with a shop vac and a mop and bucket, it's come clean, then you can see where to begin.
good luck, keep posting pictures of your progress, and ignore the nay sayers |
Thanks. Looking forward to doing my own work without hoping I didn't get dicked buying someone's sawdust filled differential with shiny paint  I like doing my own work.
By the way, I didn't find this on CL... Got a link to what you were looking at? |
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rubbachicken
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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i just looked, the CL advert is long gone, i think it was up there for $1300
| Wasted youth wrote: |
Thanks. Looking forward to doing my own work without hoping I didn't get dicked buying someone's sawdust filled differential with shiny paint I like doing my own work.
By the way, I didn't find this on CL... Got a link to what you were looking at? |
_________________
lucy our westy
lucy's BIG adventure
meet 'burni'
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.
619 201 0310 or 617 935 4182 |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Recap... all afternoon I would get buffeted by quick bursts of light breezes filled with fine dust. Although the wind was not strong, it was effective in being annoying with the damned dust. The other cars and motorhomes around me acted both like shields sometimes and canyons other times, alternately shielding me from, and then channeling the torture. It is in my eyes, my crotch and my socks. Both tool boxes have been peppered with the sandy dust, and its sticking to my tools. It rained lightly off and on all day, never enough to kill the dust, always quickly drying out. Springtime in our desert.
All of this to the soundtrack of torn aluminum siding on various motor homes around me flapping gently against old pallets and other crap. And not a soul around but me. Every other time I got up or out from under the van to do something, I expected some San Bernardino County tweeker to be standing in the door of one of the 1970-something gutted trailers staring at me through scratched up sunglasses.
Anyway...
The propane tank guard was definitely the victim of negligence, but the tank and plumbing is OK. All outdated fittings.
The trailing arms are rust free, and not damaged. The suspension looks pretty good. Of course all the bushings, shocks, etc. are old.
The sideswipe got the panel and sliding door pretty damned good, but the wheel is inside of that and escaped that negligent event.
I got all four tires changed out with old tires that hold air, enough to get it on a flatbed for transport. Bent the star wrench a little trying to free up two of the front wheel lug bolts. Made me think of how screwed I'd be if I needed an impact wrench.  Rears had no issues.
I am now convinced that the mountains of dust that are in the van are not connected to flood damage. I brought home enough of that airborne crap in my clothes, tools and supply boxes to stucco my house.
It was frustrating not being able to get the engine to idle, but I am familiar enough with L-jet to understand it has near zero tolerance for irregularities. There is only so much of my garage and parts stash that I can take with me out into the field. I will have to be satisfied that it started right up every time, ran for about two seconds then died. At least it did that. The rest of the problems will work themselves out when they are confronted with my time and money.
| a1fa wrote: |
.... I look at that $500 van, and I am reminded of how much things cost to fix, even doing them yourself. The van may clean-up nice, but then what?
All of a sudden this van is costing you $10-15k, when all you could get out of it is $5k. Value is determined by what someone is willing to pay. We all can ask $10000 on our air cooled Vanagons, but if there isn't a sucker willing to pay $10000, then you are just going to sit on it, until that sucker shows up.
It's a project van or a parts van. No body is going to buy the motor by itself. There are millions of them out there. Re-builders only charge $250 core free for your old one..
Somebody asked me if I was the seller would I have sold it at $500. Depends how bad I need it gone. If I don't need it gone, I'd price it $10k. You never know, some sucker would want it that bad... |
 ... and I totally get that. I would like to emphasize from my original post that I am not interested in trying to make a buck here. This is something I intend to use, I asked for opinions about value/pricing, because you guys know more about these than I do and I would rather hear the cold truth than try to figure it out in a short period on my own. I certainly got some excellent, realistic responses.  Thanks to all of you for shining the light in here! 
That spare motor is a great parts source, perhaps even rebuildable as a complete turn-key. It felt good turning over by hand, anyway. I took the valve covers off, and they are surprisingly much cleaner than the engine in the van. The EGR valve is NLA, and so is the PCV. Both of those, the tin and Bosch injectors combined, if sourced through the classifieds, far exceed the total cost of what I paid for that engine. Total score in my book. It will join my other transmissions and engines as stash, not resale, no core.
As far as driving an underpowered giant box... personally, I feel the technology existed in 1981 to move way beyond a two liter engine, regardless of how it was cooled, but VW did not see it that way. So, by proxy I agree with their logic when I choose to own one. Driving a big frigg'n box powered by a large lawnmower engine isn't going to please too many other drivers in 2015 and beyond, but that's just tough shit.  I'm OK with it, really. It's gonna be slow, just like my other VW's, but I will move way up the ladder from car camping. Yay!
And the little square thing on the door panel isn't where you put your weed... it's a speaker. Really. 
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Dana Champion
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 633
Location: Ventura County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
Hmmmm........ Not so sure.....
First VW Westfalia conversion was done in 1951.
Here are the performance specs for a 1954 Type II |
But:
| Dana Champion wrote: |
| I do believe, hands down, that the factory naturally aspirated diesel Westfalia 1600, is by far, the slowest Vanagon on the planet. Just my own personal experience. Great mileage though! |
Dana said "Vanagon", not "Type II".
The van in the OP is most definitely a restoration project. If you can get it for a song and are wanting to put work into, go for it. While I would never own one, I do enjoy seeing old air-cooled Vanagons still wandering the countryside. |
Thanks Kamz. I see the benefit in the quote feature. still learning...
And congratulations Wasted Youth on your score! |
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oldhuldy67
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2008
Posts: 506
Location: somewhere with a southern exposure
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasted youth,....no longer. I drive a 1980 Westy, have a few leftover parts, mostly interior things. I do have window cranks and will send some to HELP you get cranking...PM me with a good mailing address...looking forward to your build thread. All the best, John in GA |
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70coupyel
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2006
Posts: 1657
Location: So.Cal
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
And the little square thing on the door panel isn't where you put your weed... it's a speaker. Really. |
Square speakers tha'ts soooo 80's.
_________________
| TheAndante wrote: |
| Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc. |
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338946&highlight=
70 KG Coup
83 Westy Waterboxer |
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a1fa
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2011
Posts: 585
Location: Central Arkansas, United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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congrats! let the fun begin. obligatory air cooled advice: ohm the harness, replace TSII, change fuel lines, fuel filter, vacuum, check fuel pressure, and make sure afm is connected... sit back.. collect )
_________________
Learn to ride. Ride to learn. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Dana Champion wrote: |
| I do believe, hands down, that the factory naturally aspirated diesel Westfalia 1600, is by far, the slowest Vanagon on the planet. Just my own personal experience. Great mileage though! |
Funny you'd mention that. I drove one for about 20 years as my work vehicle and usually 1800-3000lb load. I think I once weighed it at 6600lb.
I also have a 1980 Westy. I used to tell people that the Westy air cooled 70hp was way stronger than the 47hp diesel. I did not drive my Westy often. One outing, I was thinking: "this doesn't really seem as fast as it used to, perhaps I've been mistaken?" After about 5 more miles I realized I was in 3rd gear. I guess after shifting into 3rd, the noise seemed appropriate, I just forgot to hit 4th.
I do not know why everyone was so negative about this completely rust free, not worn out Westy.
The guy specifically said he wanted a user.
I consider tires and brake hoses and fuel lines to be consumables. Of all the cars for sale how many have NEW tires and Brake hoses and fuel lines. The amount of money many spend on these is NUTS. Perhaps you need bragging rights, but I don't. I have never seen a bottom end fail on a type 4.
I TAKE THAT BACK, ONE TIME. It was a 76 Riviera my ex wife bought on Ebay in Wyoming. Had not run since 1984. She tow barred it home, first few miles she couldn't figure out why it towed so hard. It was in reverse. Spun about 12000 rpm backwards.
I got it driving then the rod started squealing. Duh. Then I got the rest of the story.
But usually, this stuff fixed cheaply if you work smart. Don't get in a hurry. Be skeptical of changing parts just cause they are new. Old German is sometimes hard to beat.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: |
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I was actually able to spend some more time on this van recently. Question for California people: The fuel pump relay (aka Double Relay) may be failing or failed. More on that later. Anyway, I saw two available, and didn't realize there was one specifically for California:
http://www.busdepot.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=03...sort_order
And then there is the usual relay:
http://www.busdepot.com/071906059
 What is special about the California design? Why would it be important?
FWIW, the relay on my California emissions van looks like the old style metal case relay like what is found on late Baywindow buses.
Last edited by Wasted youth on Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RCB
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 4143
Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, California Models have a particular Double Relay. Its the first one ( blue color ) Google the part number 0332514125 to see if a vendor actually has one in stock The prices may vary and the California specific one could possibly be difficult to locate. The California Part I believe is a 13 point pin connection and the Federal is 11 point. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks. Naturally, I will be looking into what those two extra pins connect to. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
| Thanks. Naturally, I will be looking into what those two extra pins connect to. |
It's a totally different system harness, more complex than the 74-78 one. It will have an O2 sensor and the resistance is built into the harness rather than a separate block on the firewall. In addition California Vanagons used a different exhaust system, very perplexing to look at. I think the main reason was to keep the exhaust hotter so to keep the catalytic converter at cooking temperature.
Also electronic ignition. Late systems had an electronic idle stabilizer as well, not sure if it was on any air cooleds or not.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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guavajelly
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 65
Location: MI>MN>CA>WI>KS>ME
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| 69doublecab wrote: |
| Wasted youth wrote: |
| Thanks. Naturally, I will be looking into what those two extra pins connect to. |
It's a totally different system harness, more complex than the 74-78 one. It will have an O2 sensor and the resistance is built into the harness rather than a separate block on the firewall. In addition California Vanagons used a different exhaust system, very perplexing to look at. I think the main reason was to keep the exhaust hotter so to keep the catalytic converter at cooking temperature.
Also electronic ignition. Late systems had an electronic idle stabilizer as well, not sure if it was on any air cooleds or not.
Al |
mine is an 83 california air-cooled. at far left of the below pic you can see part of the idle stabilizer. and yes the exhaust system is perplexing. I am wrestling with mine as i type this. It is almost entirely different than the federal version.
welcome and good luck!
_________________
65 Karmann Ghia Coupe
83 a/c westy
Past:
71 fastback
66 squareback |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the replies! This system is more complex than the 1977 I last worked on, and am just now feeling my way through it, so I appreciate your experience and insight. |
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1981 Vanagon Westfalia ~ A dry Arizona van! |
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It's been a long time since I've updated this thread. This is the extra engine I got with the deal. Fully dressed with some plastic parts damage, but it turns over by hand. After I got the van home, I pulled all the carpets and cushions and spent a hot afternoon washing as much sand and silt out of them as I could. Still has sand in the carpets!
I contacted a fellow Sambanista up near Sacramento and drove up there for a bunch of plastic body and trim parts, and also got an excellent condition slider door and replacement tail light housings from John and Abe Salvian in Fresno before their yard closed forever. I also ordered a new right rear fender well section to replace the dented up original.
Then, before I did anything more with this Westy we discovered and purchased a 1987 Westfalia, so this project never got traction.
This week, I got to work on making the engine run again. First thing is dropping the fuel tank and cleaning it out. There was some rust in there, but not awful. I followed Ratwell's process for prepping a tank for POR-15, but I am not going to do the POR-15 step, because I think the rust is not detrimental at this point. A thorough acid wash and stop-bath made it a lot better.
I have all the fuel tank grommets and seals on hand and a new sender and Bosch fuel pump is on its way... along with new back hatch struts and a pop-top seal kit from Van Cafe. It also needs a new tent, but I don't have the coin for that right now. Last year I bought several fuel pump relays for this system from AutohausAZ when they were on sale.
While I am waiting for those parts I removed the engine air intake system to replace all the seals there and bench-clean the fuel injectors. New inlet screens were installed on those and I got 2.5 ounces of fuel in 30 seconds time at 12VDC. All new fuel injector seals are on order, too. |
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