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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: Replacing Air Conditioner Hoses |
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So..... As I rebuild my 86 Multivan (Weekender) I am focusing on rebuilding the Air Conditioner system as well.
One of the reasons I chose this Van was that it DID have Air Conditioning, something that is important to us older folks.
Yes, I've read the horror stories of factory AC units blowing putridly lack luster cold air way back there in the rear of the Van.
"Useless" they say!
"Just rip it out" others say!
"Put in an in Dash unit" a few say ...... Something I've seriously considered and haven't yet written completely off.
I've redesigned my dash air flow system to be able to shut off the ram air system and resealed the flaps that control air flow.
I think Ive got the unwanted warm Dash air infiltration well under control.
Now I'm making plans for an upgrade.
There are a lot of articles already on the Web about the Vanagon AC system.
But I've yet to see one that says "you need X feet of Y hose and use these ABC fittings........."
****************
So, I'm going to attempt to create that missing body of information in this thread.
I've gathered together what I believe to be the best options from what I've read to date.
These choices are right for ME. You read, you judge and you do what is best for you.
Ok, non hose stuff........
I am keeping my factory Evaporator. I will be removing it, cleaning the exterior and fins of the unit, installing new foam and flushing it out with An Air Line Alcohol of a yet to be determined brand.
My factory condensor seems good. However, I've read that the new condensors designed for 134a are much more efficient at cooling off the refrigerant thus better cooling.
JudoJeff installed this condensor in his unit........
Condenser Nostalgic Air #54-1622 as per Bostig Knowledge BaseTips article posted by JudoJeff
https://bostig.zendesk.com/categories/search?utf8=...mit=Search
http://nostalgicac.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=54-1622
Dave
(More to come)
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I will be using the Red-Tek R12a refrigerant as per the extensive discussion on this thread.........
Scroll down to page 43 for the Readers Digest Condensed version......
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=292488
I Will be getting a new Receiver / Dryer and a new Expansion Valve from a known distributor. Just want to eliminate as much 30 year old stuff as I can.
The Sandon 508 AC compressor is in question right now. An expensive item but easy to simply upgrade right now at the Starting gate. ....... Hmmmmmmm
**********
Now the crux of the discussion.....
HOSES!
FITTINGS!
What to use?
I'm not a fan of subbing work out and prefer to work at my own pace manufacturing what I Need as I go along. So, no, I Won't be carting hoses off to some jobber so they can make them for me.
I did purchase an AC hose crimping clamp last year which will allow me to crimp fittings on ........ but have since stumbled across this product line which looks quite user friendly!
Eaton EZ Clip AC hose fitting System using a GH134 refrigerant hose........
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pll_1017.pdf
Now I need to find out what each threaded connection is, size, style, angle, thread,etc so I can order the proper fittings.
I also need to find out hose size and length needed for each hose run.
JudoJeff was kind enough to post this information which I've shamelessly stolen! ........
#6 hose goes between the condenser and evaporator, with the R/D and trinary switch in the line.
#8 hose is the discharge, high side of the compressor, to the condenser.
#10 hose goes out from the evaporator to the suction side of the compressor.
If I Use the nostalgic Air Condenser I need these threaded fitting for the chosen hose size........ I need........
Fittings : Top: #8 Male insert (3/4"-16)
Bottom: #6 Male insert (5/8"-18 )
Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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djkeev
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Ahwahnee
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Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I do not know when the radiator fan changed but on my 84 I replaced the original fan with the later, more powerful, 3-speed fan (requires the later shroud).
Also used that bigger parallel flow condenser from Nostalgic.
Evap & compressor were fine, so unchanged.
Sorry, cannot answer about hose lengths, etc as the old ones were simply copied to make the new ones (though possibly one was made longer to accommodate fittings on the new condenser).
System stills uses R12 though I went with barrier hoses just in case that changes later.
Many think R12 is unavailable (it's not) or priced like liquid gold (price it out and see what a small portion of the total cost it represents). I'm not saying RedTek isn't good - I simply have no experience with it.
The end result is a cold interior even in 100°+ weather.
PS - A good window tint is really needed to give the AC a chance, though perhaps you have already done this. |
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insyncro
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Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:52 am Post subject: |
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RedTek is awesome.
I have been finishing a Vintage Air front install.
I bought a spool of line and ends.
I am making the hoses custom with a Master Cool crimper.
The condenser of choice is in a thread around here, it is 25% bigger IIRC. |
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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In my opinion, the reason for the cross flow condensor was / is the real poor cooling properties of the 134-A.
With the factory installed R-12 the stock condensor works just fine.
And with the R-12 A it functions perfectly.
I think it's a bit of overkill, and not a necessary expense if a guy used what the system was designed for, or close to that in the R-12A.
Dave,
You going to make your own hoses?
If not don't worry about how much--take the old hoses out, get over to a parker dealer and have them made--all done, no thinking required or needed.
Barrier hose regardless of what your going to use in the system is a real good idea.
Don't forget to flush out that evaporator --squeaky clean.
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djkeev
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
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OK.
And?
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djkeev
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry Kay wrote: |
OK.
And? |
And...... If I Had ordered parts for a late production 1986 (5/86) I would have received a pile of incorrect parts.
Wrong Rec/Dryer, wrong Expansion Valve, wrong compressor.
Some early 86's had 85 parts apparently, but early to me would be late 85 production.
I know that in the 1970's and 1980's the Germans shipped most of their units to the States without AC..... My experience is with Mercedes Benz and BMW but I'd hazard a guess that VW did likewise.
AC was either added at the shops at the port of entry or installed at the dealership.
I'm guessing this one came into altenburg VW In Taunton Mass., sat around unsold and wasn't equipped with AC.
Finally someone wanted it on 5/87 as an 86 left over but to make the sale it MUST have AC..... The shop grabbed an 85 and earlier kit the parts room had on the shelf and and wanted it GONE so they slapped it in.
Bottom line........ Bargain left over vehicle with a bargain left over AC kit as well. (Though the Sales department paid the full bore 1986 kit price I'm sure)
Hence the extra AC instruction page print dated as 7/81
Moral...... Look before you order!
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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So order the parts and install them.
If you ordered 86 stuff it will fit.
Your changing the hoses anyway -- makes no.
The condensor, evap. connections will be as they are.
Don't over think this pretty simple process.
Updating the old stuff regardless what year it might be to current equipment.
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djkeev
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kamzcab86
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
I know that in the 1970's and 1980's the Germans shipped most of their units to the States without AC..... |
In the Cabriolet world, those equipped with "factory A/C" (which is most of the USA-destined cars) were equipped with A/C at the factory, before they left Germany. There were a handful that were shipped as "A/C-prepped", which meant the dealers installed the A/C, and they did not use the factory equipment.
If your build sheet sticker (if the van still has it) has code 573, it came with A/C from the factory.
| djkeev wrote: |
| Moral...... Look before you order! |
As GoWesty clearly states on the compressor pages:
"This is an application GUIDE. Do not rely solely on the application guide. It is your responsibility to [e]nsure your existing compressor fits this description prior to ordering."
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1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
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MarkWard
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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On a vanagon, I would expect at some point you could tell if it was dealer installed AC or factory installed. Dealer installed AC's have a "hacked" look in the way the hoses were routed, wiring added, etc. Look at any holes where hoses are routed through the chassis. If it looks like a hole saw did it, dealer installed.
At our dealer, AC systems were installed on Saturdays. The techs, were paid a flat rate to install them. If they could get two done in a day, it was good spare money. The quality was always lacking though.
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cellerdoor
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Already did the Eaton write up for an 86 westy if it helps
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Howesight
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Dave:
I used the Nostalgic AC Parts 16" x 24" evaporator, Part #54-1622 if I recall correctly. This unit is just the right size to completely cover the factory Vanagon radiator so that the rad fan efficiency (when there is no ram air) is maximized. I also used 3M foam gasket material that was roughly 1" wide, by 3/4" thick with a self-stick applied to the 1" wide side. Thus unit can be installed with the fittings on the right or on the left - - cooling air can pass through in either direction. Just ensure that the liquid line outlet (the #6 fitting outlet) is on the top.
Installing this NACP unit does require spacing out the bottom factory Vanagon rad brackets 1/2" approximately. Here are some pics of my install:
Rad bracket spaced out with nuts:
Bottom Mounting Detail:
Top Mounting Detail:
Flange Area of Condenser: Install the foam seal gasket behind the condenser flanges seen in this pic.
Here is a pic of the stock Vanagon condenser. It is not parallel flow, so it is less efficient on that ground. More importantly, it has the GAP, which seriously degrades the effectiveness of the rad fan trying to pull ambient air through the condenser, compared to the NACP unit.
[/b]
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djkeev
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dhaavers
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm watching this too...1/86 build date with all the '85 AC bits.
Thanks, Dave!
- Dave
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"The WonderVan"
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Forthwithtx
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is just in time. The Texas Summer is coming and I need to consider my AC very soon.
A fellow Vanagonner local to me replaced the refrigerant lines using Aeroquip hoses and fittings. The benefit to him was that he didn't need to buy a special crimping tool or involve a specialized shop. |
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djkeev
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Bingo Dave.
No yardstick required.
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