I would say R&P is shot, yeah?

metropoj · Samba Member Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343

My 2WD 4sp tranny has been making a whirring noise since I bought it.

Not loud when you are coasting, no noise at all when you put in the clutch. Tied to vehicle 'speed' and not to gearing.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Looks pretty worn to me Smile

486,000 kms on this one.

Opinions if this is just because it is well used and worn or maybe was low on oil or ?

Vanagon was also towed behind a motorhome for about 50,000 kms of its life but I don't think that should have had any difference than just regular driving. It's not like an auto tranny....

So, it is a loss for a core but I will save it because the PO did the 3/4 slider in it not that long before i got the van and although my used replacement tranny was all rebuilt and stuff, you just never know. Smile

Stuff it in the corner of the garage Smile

....

Now to wade through the numerous gear oil threads to see what to fill the next one up with, lol.

IdahoDoug · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:17 am Post subject:

What am I looking for? I don't see any chunks missing.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

metropoj · Samba Member Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343

I thought maybe a trained eye on the teeth themselves may reveal more than my completely untrained eye.

I didn't see chunks out of anything but it just looked generally worn.

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:34 am Post subject:

I think you'll want to closely inspect the pinion gear
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MarkWard · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:50 am Post subject:

I would measure the backlash with a dial indicator. Did it make the same noise in all the gears?
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Abscate · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:57 am Post subject:

gears · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:02 am Post subject:

You're showing us the coast side of many teeth on the ring gear (which likely WOULD have a bit more wear than normal due to many miles of towing). Wear on this side might make noise during coasting.

But you say it's quiet while coasting, which suggests that you hear your noise when on throttle .. so show us a close up of the DRIVE side PINION teeth.

The whirring noise may not be your R&P at all ..
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Merian · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:06 am Post subject:

I also see no obvious problems - a good, well-focused pic with a macro lens could help. Or take it to a trusted person for inspection.

Or measure... Like the man said: "when you measure... you know... something." (Wm. Thompson, Lord kelvin)

pdm777 · Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject:

I had whirring noise from 30mph to 75mph.
Put in neutral at 60mph, noise still there.
therefore, not engine related.
Not much difference turning right or left.

Turned out to be drivers side rear wheel bearing.
Easy fix. now all it quiet.

metropoj · Samba Member Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343

Interesting stuff I am reading here.

This was my thinking:

The noise happened under 'load' when clutch is out, like during acceleration but if I let off the throttle I don't notice it. Same with clutch in, no noticeable noise.

Clutch in and a rev of the motor doesn't change anything.

Was tied to wheel revolutions and didn't change with any particular gear selected.

I had ruled out in my mind that if it was rear wheel bearings then the noise would be constant all the time but I may have missed the boat on this. Everything is well worn in on this van ( maybe worn-out is better description )

I'll have to look more into this as suggested as I'm curious now.

metropoj · Samba Member Joined: April 23, 2004 Posts: 1343

Abscate · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:47 am Post subject:

I don't think Ive ever heard a rear wheel bearing change noise under float/load.

You could jack car up and drive wheel and listen to noise outside, isolating bearing and R&P by location.

The good news is R&P can be noisy for a long time before they impede utility.
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Waldi · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:13 am Post subject:

RicoS · Samba Member Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 583

I'd say, check the pinion bearing. The bummer is that you have to go deep to do it.

I once had a queefed out pinion bearing and more than one expert said, "DEFINITELY the R&P" from the unnatural sound the X-axle made under load.

Even after I pulled the trannie and checked the backlash it seemed OK. But, when I finally got to the naked pinion, it could be shifted axially at least 1/8" (3mm for you metricphiles) within its bearing and all questions were answered.

Richie

Abscate · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:10 am Post subject:

IdahoDoug · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:54 am Post subject:

I'm with Rico. My Syncro tranny made that same noise pattern. R&P was fine but it was the pinion bearing race moving, and the main bearing race moving. The R&P is worth having measured so you know. No way to use your eyes to judge unless you are a pro yourself.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

gears · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:10 am Post subject:

geo_tonz · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:50 am Post subject:

gears · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:57 pm Post subject:

IdahoDoug · Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject:

"It's virtually impossible for a mechanic to know if R&P noise is because the bearing is failing, the bore has wallowed and/or the bearing nut has loosened. The noise generated is still an R&P that isn't in proper mesh at least part of the time."

Really, really good point I did not realize. Thanks for that one!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader


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