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Woody419
Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Dayton, ohio
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 Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Great info !! |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know. The originals had a square cross section. Those might be the ones Ray Greenwood uses; check the Type 4 forum for his threads about injector seals. If they work there, they should work on your T3. |
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micahmonster
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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Hi All!
I'm happy to see some posts here that aren't 6 years old, HA!
FInally got my 68 SB FI back from a friend I gave it to for 13 years (I didn't want to kill it by taking it from L.A. to New Orleans). It's now happy to be in my garage in Denver.
While he had it he didn't put many miles on it but he did have a good garage put in a rebuilt long block in '04. he drove it about 3k and took it in for the tuneups - then he had let it sit for the most part. He said the Fuel Pump died a year ago - he replaced it and it ran for ten minutes then wouldn't start again. It's sat since.
Upon getting her back I checked the pump and it's toast - but I think it is because of the terribly kinked gas line connected to it - I think he burned both pumps.
I've replaced it with the much-lauded Airtex E2000 today and drained most of the tank, replaced it with 4 gallons of 91 oct. Replaced all hoses with proper FI hoses too, routed return to tank only.
Turning the key and you can hear it prime. I primed it half a zillion times, heard the bubbles come up from the return line.. system seems to be pressurizing.. And she will try.. oh my, will she try to run. Best I've gotten is about 3 or 4 revolutions firing and she dies.
So I just want to run this through you guys, see if I'm on the right track on what to do now.
1. test relays and tighten everything snug. test sensors.
2. vacuum line replacements.
Already replaced old spark wires and checked plugs (ok and gapped)
3. Pull injectors and see if they are spraying gas while cranking. If seeming gummed up, pull and take them to the grizzled guys down at the awesome vw shop to get tested/cleaned.
4. I do not seem to have a testing point on the rails by the injectors.. how else can I test the pressure?
I don't have a timing light yet, and I need to learn to use one (and not go by idle sound, Im terrible) but he was pretty good about getting those tune-ups and the timing set so I really want to believe the timing is at least OK.
Any thoughts? Help a gal returning to the VW way after an 8 year absence out. 
I hope I'm ok posting this here, I didn't want to start a new thread on an old and probably beaten to death story.
P.S.
I'll be looking to replace the front drivers side fender and front apron on this car.. If anyone wants to sell me those, I will buy and pay for shipping _and_ bake you cookies/make you fudge. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:22 am Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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1. Check fuel pressure- you need 28 PSI.
2. Check point gap- adjust as necessary.
Then, towards the bottom of the first page of the troubleshooting guide I posted on P.1 of this thread, check the connection at the trigger points and the wires under the boot.
Check for any vacuum hoses off.
Let us know what you find.
EDIT- I see you don't seem to have a pressure test port. Hmmm, that sucks. Do you have the dealer add on cold start system?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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micahmonster
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| Quote: |
| 2. Check point gap- adjust as necessary. |
Went to do this and found the belt won't stick well enough to turn the motor with the pulley bolt. It is spinning the pullys when cranking though--- will address this poste haste.
| Quote: |
| Then, towards the bottom of the first page of the troubleshooting guide I posted on P.1 of this thread, check the connection at the trigger points and the wires under the boot. |
I'm currently going over all the wires. I've found quite a few in not broken, but bare/sad state, and am fixing those, including the wire for the cyl head temp sensor. there is a wire with a small black fuse holder laying over the engine with a blue(?) fuse in it that has fallen apart. I'm trying to track down what it goes to.. is this a 25amp fuse? I'll have to find some.
| Quote: |
| Check for any vacuum hoses off. |
Going to replace all of those here in a bit.
| Quote: |
| EDIT- I see you don't seem to have a pressure test port. Hmmm, that sucks. Do you have the dealer add on cold start system? |
Actually I found it. It was last night when I looked, I was tired, and apparently my brain was willing it to be at the easy to get to 1-2 head side. But no, of course, it's on 3-4.
Thank you so much for all help!  It's so good to be back. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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Fuse holder traces to the + (battery) side of the coil, right? Your car likely isn't an automatic, so it'll be the fuse for reverse lights. 35a is way overkill- a regular white 8a is what it is supposed to have.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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micahmonster
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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25 did seem a bit much. I'll put in a white tomorrow and see how it goes.
Tested the fuel line pressure and it was a solid 28. both at priming and at cranking. I took out all the old engine bay fuel line and carefully removed the injectors (and removed the grommets which are really rough looking) - I will replace the fuel line with good FI line (it's all looking like original line) and take the injectors in for testing and hopefully they just need a good cleaning.
*crosses fingers*
Another question:
Would 7.5mm Benz FI line be ok, or too large to seal properly with the stock fi clamps?
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| micahmonster wrote: |
25 did seem a bit much. I'll put in a white tomorrow and see how it goes.
Tested the fuel line pressure and it was a solid 28. both at priming and at cranking. I took out all the old engine bay fuel line and carefully removed the injectors (and removed the grommets which are really rough looking) - I will replace the fuel line with good FI line (it's all looking like original line) and take the injectors in for testing and hopefully they just need a good cleaning.
*crosses fingers*
Another question:
Would 7.5mm Benz FI line be ok, or too large to seal properly with the stock fi clamps?
|
That's what I use. Don't use the webbed style- it's been crap for a decade now.
Note, though, that if you have a trigger point issue or an issue with the wiring going to them your injectors won't fire. To test your injectors, use a 9v transistor radio battery. If they click, they are working.
Get yourself a small ultrasonic cleaner and clean your own injectors. Harbor Freight has them.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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micahmonster
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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Oh that's a brilliant thing then, because the local old guy vw shop damn near had a cow when I asked them if they could test them. "well no one can do that, it's electronic, you need to just leave them in the car and test them.. I couldn't do it, would have to build a rig for it, I haven't seen more than 4 type 3's in 15 years" </crankydude>
ok, ok, ok, I get it.
I have them suspended and the tips soaking in gas now - I love this ultrasonic idea, will swing by HF. I love that I can use a 9v to test. OH NO, GOTTA RIG UP A PUMP AND THESE ARE ELECTRONIC, YOU KNOW.
I am keeping those triggers in mind.. The nasty old gas and sitting has me leaning on crud, but if cleaning and new lines and they all click isn't the answer, I will head down that road.
On foot, for now, of course.
>.>
You rock. |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| micahmonster wrote: |
| I have them suspended and the tips soaking in gas now - I love this ultrasonic idea, will swing by HF. I love that I can use a 9v to test. OH NO, GOTTA RIG UP A PUMP AND THESE ARE ELECTRONIC, YOU |
Mind the spark if you still have gas in them... |
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micahmonster
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2016
Posts: 22
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| micahmonster wrote: |
| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
Here's a thread using the 9v battery method, a sonic cleaner, and Simple Green. Note that this user had two injectors not respond to the 9v battery so he gently knocked them and they came alive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
He was able to get this car running just fine. P. 2 and 3 is most of the info you want, but you might want to read the whole thing just because.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| Tram wrote: |
| micahmonster wrote: |
| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
Here's a thread using the 9v battery method, a sonic cleaner, and Simple Green. Note that this user had two injectors not respond to the 9v battery so he gently knocked them and they came alive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
He was able to get this car running just fine. P. 2 and 3 is most of the info you want, but you might want to read the whole thing just because. |
PLEASE.....do not use simple green!!!!!!....yes it will "degrease" the injectors. But.....unless they are used with fuel or solvent immediately. ...it will rust them. Simple green is 100% designed to be rinsed away with water. It has several ingredients which are not to be used with metals and left on them. ......not to mention that simple greens dirty little secret is that its not "green" at all. It has one ingredient that kills aquatic life and is cumulative in the environment. Ray |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34009
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| How about Soylent Green, then? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| How about Soylent Green, then? |
Well.....personally I think I would taste pretty good when recycled. ....but I am probably biased.....
Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| micahmonster wrote: |
| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
Here's a thread using the 9v battery method, a sonic cleaner, and Simple Green. Note that this user had two injectors not respond to the 9v battery so he gently knocked them and they came alive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
He was able to get this car running just fine. P. 2 and 3 is most of the info you want, but you might want to read the whole thing just because. |
PLEASE.....do not use simple green!!!!!!....yes it will "degrease" the injectors. But.....unless they are used with fuel or solvent immediately. ...it will rust them. Simple green is 100% designed to be rinsed away with water. It has several ingredients which are not to be used with metals and left on them. ......not to mention that simple greens dirty little secret is that its not "green" at all. It has one ingredient that kills aquatic life and is cumulative in the environment. Ray |
Why don't we just submit all our posts directly to you for your approval before hitting 'submit'?
Jeebus H. Crikey. 
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| Tram wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| micahmonster wrote: |
| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
Here's a thread using the 9v battery method, a sonic cleaner, and Simple Green. Note that this user had two injectors not respond to the 9v battery so he gently knocked them and they came alive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
He was able to get this car running just fine. P. 2 and 3 is most of the info you want, but you might want to read the whole thing just because. |
PLEASE.....do not use simple green!!!!!!....yes it will "degrease" the injectors. But.....unless they are used with fuel or solvent immediately. ...it will rust them. Simple green is 100% designed to be rinsed away with water. It has several ingredients which are not to be used with metals and left on them. ......not to mention that simple greens dirty little secret is that its not "green" at all. It has one ingredient that kills aquatic life and is cumulative in the environment. Ray |
Why don't we just submit all our posts directly to you for your approval before hitting 'submit'?
Jeebus H. Crikey. |
Or next time I can just blow it off and let people screw up their parts because posting correct information for you guys with information seems to piss you off.
Hey....I work with chemicals for a living.....so knowing that something that is in a product may damage critical machined surfaces is part of what I do for a living.
Or instead of submitting posts to me.....perhaps people could pull down the SDS and data sheets on a product, do some research ......and quit recomending chemicals to the entire world on a forum for uses they were not intended for.
Simple Green is one of the most misused cleaners on the market. Its excellent for its intended uses.
However.....it MUST be rinsed away with water. Those who use it in parts cleaners are taking a risk. If they rinse with hot water and then oil the surfaces....no issues. Not rinsing you leave a residue that can rewet and defeat protective and lubricating oils......its a DEGREASER.....thats what its designed to do.
Mostly people use Simple Green and detergents for improper uses because they are too cheap to buy the correct chemical, too lazy to buy protective and safety equilment to use the correct chemical or are working with chemicals in an envrionment where they have no control.
On an injector....if you re-install and use them same day after simple green....its not an issue. Howevef if they sit in a shelf for weeks.....they can be rusted junk.
Ray |
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trythis
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 145
Location: St Louis MO
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
On an injector....if you re-install and use them same day after simple green....its not an issue. Howevef if they sit in a shelf for weeks.....they can be rusted junk.
Ray |
Hi, my first post...weird place to start, but; What is a good chemical for cleaning an injector? |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22727
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| micahmonster wrote: |
| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
Here's a thread using the 9v battery method, a sonic cleaner, and Simple Green. Note that this user had two injectors not respond to the 9v battery so he gently knocked them and they came alive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
He was able to get this car running just fine. P. 2 and 3 is most of the info you want, but you might want to read the whole thing just because. |
PLEASE.....do not use simple green!!!!!!....yes it will "degrease" the injectors. But.....unless they are used with fuel or solvent immediately. ...it will rust them. Simple green is 100% designed to be rinsed away with water. It has several ingredients which are not to be used with metals and left on them. ......not to mention that simple greens dirty little secret is that its not "green" at all. It has one ingredient that kills aquatic life and is cumulative in the environment. Ray |
Why don't we just submit all our posts directly to you for your approval before hitting 'submit'?
Jeebus H. Crikey. |
Or next time I can just blow it off and let people screw up their parts because posting correct information for you guys with information seems to piss you off.
Hey....I work with chemicals for a living.....so knowing that something that is in a product may damage critical machined surfaces is part of what I do for a living.
Or instead of submitting posts to me.....perhaps people could pull down the SDS and data sheets on a product, do some research ......and quit recomending chemicals to the entire world on a forum for uses they were not intended for.
Simple Green is one of the most misused cleaners on the market. Its excellent for its intended uses.
However.....it MUST be rinsed away with water. Those who use it in parts cleaners are taking a risk. If they rinse with hot water and then oil the surfaces....no issues. Not rinsing you leave a residue that can rewet and defeat protective and lubricating oils......its a DEGREASER.....thats what its designed to do.
Mostly people use Simple Green and detergents for improper uses because they are too cheap to buy the correct chemical, too lazy to buy protective and safety equilment to use the correct chemical or are working with chemicals in an envrionment where they have no control.
On an injector....if you re-install and use them same day after simple green....its not an issue. Howevef if they sit in a shelf for weeks.....they can be rusted junk.
Ray |
Ray- Instead of REPRIMANDING people and basically accusing them of trying to destroy peoples cars maybe EXPLAIN why you disagree and suggest an ALTERNATIVE.
It sure doesn't sound as if this person is going to let these injectors sit around for weeks- definitely sounds like she would be pressing them right into service.
OP, if you want any further advice kindly PM or email me and I'll be glad to help. I am just sick of this shit. Better yet email me as I'm not getting PM notifications. [email protected]
Out
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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stonecoldcars
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013
Posts: 265
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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| Tram wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| micahmonster wrote: |
| WHat do you use in the ultrasonic to clean them.. can't be just water?!? |
Here's a thread using the 9v battery method, a sonic cleaner, and Simple Green. Note that this user had two injectors not respond to the 9v battery so he gently knocked them and they came alive:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...p;start=20
He was able to get this car running just fine. P. 2 and 3 is most of the info you want, but you might want to read the whole thing just because. |
PLEASE.....do not use simple green!!!!!!....yes it will "degrease" the injectors. But.....unless they are used with fuel or solvent immediately. ...it will rust them. Simple green is 100% designed to be rinsed away with water. It has several ingredients which are not to be used with metals and left on them. ......not to mention that simple greens dirty little secret is that its not "green" at all. It has one ingredient that kills aquatic life and is cumulative in the environment. Ray |
Why don't we just submit all our posts directly to you for your approval before hitting 'submit'?
Jeebus H. Crikey. |
Or next time I can just blow it off and let people screw up their parts because posting correct information for you guys with information seems to piss you off.
Hey....I work with chemicals for a living.....so knowing that something that is in a product may damage critical machined surfaces is part of what I do for a living.
Or instead of submitting posts to me.....perhaps people could pull down the SDS and data sheets on a product, do some research ......and quit recomending chemicals to the entire world on a forum for uses they were not intended for.
Simple Green is one of the most misused cleaners on the market. Its excellent for its intended uses.
However.....it MUST be rinsed away with water. Those who use it in parts cleaners are taking a risk. If they rinse with hot water and then oil the surfaces....no issues. Not rinsing you leave a residue that can rewet and defeat protective and lubricating oils......its a DEGREASER.....thats what its designed to do.
Mostly people use Simple Green and detergents for improper uses because they are too cheap to buy the correct chemical, too lazy to buy protective and safety equilment to use the correct chemical or are working with chemicals in an envrionment where they have no control.
On an injector....if you re-install and use them same day after simple green....its not an issue. Howevef if they sit in a shelf for weeks.....they can be rusted junk.
Ray |
Ray- Instead of REPRIMANDING people and basically accusing them of trying to destroy peoples cars maybe EXPLAIN why you disagree and suggest an ALTERNATIVE.
It sure doesn't sound as if this person is going to let these injectors sit around for weeks- definitely sounds like she would be pressing them right into service.
OP, if you want any further advice kindly PM or email me and I'll be glad to help. I am just sick of this shit. Better yet email me as I'm not getting PM notifications. [email protected]
Out |
Since my thread is tied to this, i would like to add that I used Oil Eater product with my cleaning procedure in the ultra sonic machine.
_________________
My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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