IRS side cover interchange

[michla]

I know this topic has been covered before, but not completely.

I'm building-up a Type 1 IRS drag trans for the season and have quite a few diff side covers to select from, all from good used stock trannies.

I know you can't use the Magnesium RIGHT cover 113 301 183H on the left side...but can you use the single-rib Aluminum LEFT cover 113 301 183(4)F,G (ring-gear side) on the right side? There doesn't appear to be any drastic dimensional change--especially as pertains to bearing race seat depth---but if there is any reason to not use the tougher single rib-type covers on BOTH sides (other than weight), I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks

[bugguy076]

I have used the left side cover from the single side cover trannys(don't know the number) for the right side of a double sided case. You have to buy a heavy duty side cover for the ring gear side. I will tell you that any stock cover on the ring gear side will break. Been there, done that!
You will also need a bearing plate to stop the pinion gear from pushing itself forward away from the ring gear. The pinion nut will not hold it in place. It will strip out.
When you are setting the back-lash on the R&P, reduce it to as close to "0" as you can without any binding. This will give you the most tooth ingaugement possible.
_________________
Grubby Fingers Racing
1976 Drag Bug
1967 Street Bug

[Bruce]

Any IRS side cover will fit either side of the trans. The dimensions are all the same.

[[email protected]]

Like Bruce mentioned, there is a sidecover with two raised rings on the outside of it that is the strongest of the stock OEM VW sidecovers. You may end up paying as much for one of those as you would for a nice aftermarket aluminum one if you don't allready have one though.

[michla]

thanks guys
yes, I have a pinion bearing retaining plate in place
yes, side covers can break but I've never had one break in 27 seasons of racing if it's set up properly
ok can use either side but the 184G is a magnesium plate and NOT to be used on the ring gear side (perceptibly lighter in weight too...and I stand corrected on the part number for that mentioned at the beginning)

I have several plates that are the single rib aluminum (heavier) and I will use them on both sides then.

[bugguy076]

I thought the double ringed ones would not break, 'till it did in a final. It made for an expensive repair and a lost race. Sorry, no pic's.
So now I use a heavy duty side cover on all trannys for racing. They are not too costly.
_________________
Grubby Fingers Racing
1976 Drag Bug
1967 Street Bug

[mark tucker]

whats the bearing plate to stop pinion from going forward?and what were the two ring side covers on?

[vwracerdave]

Bearing thrust plate http://vwparts.aircooled.net/HD-Mainshaft-Bearing-Thrust-Plate-Type-1-3-1961-p/5058-10.htm

The 2 ring IRS side covers came on '75 & later transaxles.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[mcmscott]

[gears]

^^ x 2

This housing is for limiting forward pinion movement (photo upside down):

Tech article in August '88 issue of Hot VW's.
Tech discussions: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=89944
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=136238
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=299079
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[mark tucker]

I knew about the big plate that stops main shaft movement, this other one(casting&shims) is probably kinda spensive.but looks like the way to go with high hp.

[gears]

I'm pretty sure Weddle now has a reasonably priced housing that could be modified to do the same job. This, plus chromoly retainer (or nut) for high horsepower drag cars (along with all the other sidecover, side bearing, and through-bolt mods).

Broken main cases and/or pinions are the result of forward pinion movement FAR more than raw horsepower. A broken side cover should NEVER happen unless something has really moved out of whack, IMHO.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[michla]

[michla]

[michla]

and while we're on the subject of side covers--

what do you guys do to get the first STOCK cover off for disassembly--the ring gear side? (For the right side of a double-cover case with diff out, I just carefully tap the cover out evenly-around a little at a time with a heavier wooden dowel from the opposite/ring gear side. I use a wooden closet rod).

The service manual shows using a double-jaw gear puller (the hardware store type) for even pulling/removal at opposing side-cover tabs...but it's not possible to get a jaw under the cover pulling tab against the bottom gusset as installed, not enough clearance.

Prying between the case and cover mating surfaces is VERBOTEN !!

Any tip or tricks ?

[bugguy076]

I have broke a lot of parts racing that people say can't break. Why not cast some more aspersions.
_________________
Grubby Fingers Racing
1976 Drag Bug
1967 Street Bug

[gears]

[michla]

[mark tucker]

I pulled the diff out of my old trans that had a main shaft bearing noise 8 years ago (AN code with 3:88&.88 4th) the trans was in the car when it took a good wack in axadent before I got it in boxes.I presumed that was why the ring gear&pinion had some erosion /fretting at the end of pinion.but now I see the pinion moves about .080-.100" fore&aft. this trans never saw a lot of hp (well my 2332 for about a year, but no drag starts at all)I kinda wish i had everything to pull it appart&fix...but Ive already got too much to do and dont need any more shit cramed into my head.Is any body putting a torrington thrust bearing in these things to help combat this issue?diesisisions disisissions disisisisions and spelling issues on top of that...whats next.

[gears]

Mark, the base problem needs to be fixed first, and then a final solution applied. It sounds like the stock pinion nut has expanded and popped a few threads (or backed off completely). In a high horsepower street or off-road car, the solution may be as simple as replacing the stock pinion bearing nut with the chromoly version.

But in a drag car, you need to go a step further, in order to combat main case deflection during launch (if using sticky tires). Adding a secondary pinion support via a 4th gear thrust surface (as hinted at by that intermediate housing photo) can double or triple pinion life over even a perfectly set-up R&P without the added support.

I have used taper roller bearings, but found that to really add strength, this bearing requires substantial preload. Substantial preload robs a tad of horsepower. So I kept going back to a thrust surface, which really only contacts for a split second during launch (and perhaps when shifting into 2nd gear).

Side cover lift-off also must be addressed. This is where the HD side cover proves its worth .. full circle side covers, not the cheapo ones with profiled perimeter. Only with full circle side covers can the necessary through-bolt be installed. If you don't install the external through-bolt, you may as well not install HD covers, IMO. Anyhow, it's all in the links previously provided.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com