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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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 Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
But in a drag car, you need to go a step further, in order to combat main case deflection during launch (if using sticky tires).
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all good advice for sure
truth be known, there's NO END to what needs to be done to prevent such a small gearbox from deflecting/deforming at launch, it's only as far as either you can afford...or want to be bothered about !!! 
As for the single or double rib OEM side covers vs aftermarket full-circle, given a choice, I'm not a true believer in today's aftermarket considering the inconsistent machining practices. I have found it difficult to find a "Heavy-Duty" side cover worth using that is truly concentric with the centerline of the diff housing. Result: when you set up the R&P for zero lash, you get -.000 and then +.001 lash 180 degrees apart when rotating the diff. Not worth the money unless you spent hundreds, IMHO.
Meanwhile, I think I'll go weld up a bridge puller to get the OEM side covers off with gussets in the way of the pulling tabs on the cover. |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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If backlash varies, it's usually the diffs ring gear mounting surface that's not concentric. You can get a higher quality diff, or trim the one you have in a lathe .. but 0.001" is well within factory tolerances.
Removing the left hand cover on a swingaxle is easy .. just tap on the rim of the diff bearing mounting surface, pushing diff and left cover off/out as a unit. (I just use the portion of the factory tool that fits nicely in there.) Then tap the cover off the diff bearing with a plastic hammer.
You can do something similar with an IRS, if you're comfortable tapping on the right hand stub with a plastic hammer. It isn't like those internal steel parts are fragile.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a better way
Weld up a bridge with a welded-on nut at drilled hole (need corresponding bolt long enough) in the middle of the span(CV flange off). Bridge has down arms welded on either end that have right-angle mounting ears to bolt it firmly to RIGHT side on top of RIGHT side cover (2 or 4 nuts removed from right side cover studs depending on your mounting ears--I made my fixture with 4).
Remove nuts and washers at LEFT side cover *except* 4 that are spaced evenly around the cover and back those 4 nuts off maybe an inch. They will stop the left cover and diff from falling on the floor or on your foot !
Turn trans over so left/ring gear side cover is facing down.
Thread long bolt into RIGHT side bridge you made all the way until it engages end of side gear (aka; trunion shaft). Continue turning long bolt slowly, pushing diff and left side cover out, carefully observing 4 left side nuts you backed off to catch the cover and diff if you underestimated how far to turn them out but not off the studs--careful not to back them off too far with only a few threads engaged !!
Left cover pops off evenly, diff and left cover fall are arrested by 4 captive side cover nuts and there you go. |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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.. and there you go. I've contemplated a similar bridge myself .. but which method do you think a hobbyist working on just his own transaxle will choose ? Haven't lost any toes yet ;^)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't had any trouble taking them apart, and I'm no expert at transaxles.
Some folks shy away from hammers due to past experience of ruining things with them LOL, but the majority of things doen with a press or special puller can done with a hammer too with proper fitting driver and so forth, and sometimes it is a lot faster, sometimes not. A good and large deadblow hammer is a rare thing, but really helps. Steel toes for safety! |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
You can do something similar with an IRS, if you're comfortable tapping on the right hand stub with a plastic hammer. It isn't like those internal steel parts are fragile. |
This is how I do it. 10 whacks and the side cover is off. 10 seconds.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hammers .. Every mechanic has a wide assortment. Big Bertha is my favorite ..
Anyhow, no need to overthink some of these tasks.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
This is how I do it. 10 whacks and the side cover is off. 10 seconds. |
Yeah, Bruce--except we're talking about trans case with bottom gussets--there's no way to whack at the side cover ear at the bottom as it practically sits flush against the gusset.
'Sides...none of my transaxles ever see the blunt end of a hammer, just not my gig
Last edited by michla on Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| but which method do you think a hobbyist working on just his own transaxle will choose ? Haven't lost any toes yet ;^) |
drop it from the Empire State Building and the side covers will pop off, that's how  |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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OK Michia .. You asked for help, I offered it, and for some reason you're now being an ass. WTF?
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Most people don't know how to use a hammer but never to late to learn.
| gears wrote: |
| if you're comfortable tapping on the right hand stub with a plastic hammer. It isn't like those internal steel parts are fragile. |
With 3lb deadblow hammer using 3/4" aluminum or brass drift.
Deadblow hammer goes THUD, instead of bang
Thanks Pablo for the info as always. |
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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| OK Michia .. You asked for help, I offered it, and for some reason you're now being an ass. WTF? |
what did I say that offended you? |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003
Posts: 4863
Location: Harmony, PA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| michla wrote: |
| gears wrote: |
| OK Michia .. You asked for help, I offered it, and for some reason you're now being an ass. WTF? |
what did I say that offended you? |
Pablo, I don't think he was taking a jab at you. I think he was meaning your average person/hobbyist goes a little overboard when taking their first transaxle apart, and usually ends up breaking/damaging stuff they use too much force on because they don't know how it comes apart. You, and he are far from your average hobbyist.
The nicest, most precise HD sidecovers I've installed were from Erco, or Weddle. The old Crown Steel, or Aluminum ones are nice also if you can find an NOS, or good used one.
I haven't seen too many performance trans built without HD sidcovers. There was one built at the shop I worked at that the customer simply didn't want to spend a lot of money on a trans for a play vehicle. He wanted the strongest factory configured IRS Beetle trans rebuilt with a super diff, and that was it. It was to go in a street legal rail buggy with a large Chevy V6. A late 70's trans was built, and holding up well under normal conditions, but one day was abused. The double ring side cover had broken, but upon disassembly, the main case had broken at one of the bolt holes allowing the side cover to lift. Still not wanting to spend a lot, a new late case/double ring sidecover was used on the rebuild, but a gusset was added. So far there hasn't been any other issues with the trans. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| thanks,I read the links.good info.it's really moving about .040, but just seeing it move at all seems like double that amount. I figured the pinion bearing has to of moved for it to do this.I dont have all the tools to do these,wish I did,Ive done lots of rearends&auto trans for american stuff .I hate sending stuff out & have too much going on now to start making tools just for this......but....I like making tooling....but lathe&milling machines are kinda tied up at the moment,as is my brain on another project. Im not sure just how a through bolt would help unless I driled&taped the trans made or got another solid side cover(a effed up one would do) and bolt it to the side of the SSC trans then add the threw bolt. I like a lot of power but I think my drag racing days are behind me(Ive got a full round tube suncoast racecars roadster that is just sitting,and needs to be finished&sold..or just sold so I can afford to send this to somebody have a lot of room in the shop freed up and start/finish my 356 glasscar,I cant do heavy v8 stuff any more so it's all got to go) So a threw bolt isant really needed for this one. I do like the chromoly nut,I didnt know any body made that.still lots I need to learn on these trans,not so simple like an automatic or motorcycle trans are witch require almost no special tools to do but the special tools do make it a lot easyer if your doing more than one. |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I need to apologize, Micha. Clearly I took your joke the wrong way. Three of us suggested removing the side cover off by whacking the diff out, and it seemed you were equating that to butchery.
Once the "official" way of doing things is understood by careful reading of the factory manual, there are dozens of time saving methods that us DIY guys learn. Like Bruce said, the cover and diff can be removed together VERY quickly.
Cool that you have one of those 356s, Mark. My buddy Jon & I had one for about 6 months in the mid-'80s. 1st run ever, 10.61. 2nd run, 10.01. Faster every time we took it out. No back-up trans, and never a trans broken. The worst problems we had were a slipped 1st/2nd fork, and a bent cross shaft from wheel hop. Two easy fixes.
We serviced the engines and transaxles on a number of other pretty quick bugs, ghias, even a dragster. I refused to gusset any of them. None of those cars ever spit an R&P or broke a case, yet we'd see other guys show up at the track with 4 transaxles, and break them all.
EMS was servicing the BugPack car back then. Once they began employing the same method, they ended that cars premature transaxle failures. I think they bought all my remaining housings.
Start with good parts and fully secure the R&P, or pay the consequences.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I totaly agree with all that&starting with good parts& securing the pinion. this is for my daily driver bug, not the 356 it's got a new rinocased prostreet pluss from rancho,I wish It was a 5 speed,or at least .82 4th,but it isant and has the .93,I thought I had asked for the 88 or 82 4th,but.....oh well. I think levering the diff out with the side cover is the best way to do it,but Ive taped the cover off just fine. nice tool for levering the diff out could easely be made and stuck/bolted in the starter hole to mount it with arm,pivot&lever.or wack with the dead blow ,witch shouldent hurt squat and is pushing the ring gear away from the pinion.and if you made a collor the size of the out put flange your pushing on the diff housing not spiders(irs).spacers could be made out of old out put cv flange.with or with out splines.or deep socket.
I rebuilt my first automatic trans back in the late 70's for dads dodge.simple.a few years after that a lot of cars whit some other major brand trans were coming to our shop to have the trans fixed.(mostly hp or racing trans)it's amazing the shortcuts they take on that stuff. back in the 80-90's a complete trans kit was about $45.and a $90 for a specialized racing clutch kit complete. I used a lot of the $45 kits in some high hp cars with no issues. the trans shops were just replacing the clutch pack that was dead,and the orings lip seal in that clutch pack. a $8 fix for a $800 bill. what a racket that is. if your going to fix it then fix it dont patch shit.....well execpt for on my bug trans not realy but it dosent need the trick gears&shafts.stock stuff reworked will do for a dialy driver not draged  |
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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| gears wrote: |
| I need to apologize, Micha |
No apology needed...
Hell, if I was that "sensitive", I wouldn't be posting on a public forum ! |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| michla wrote: |
| gears wrote: |
| I need to apologize, Micha |
No apology needed...
Hell, if I was that "sensitive", I wouldn't be posting on a public forum ! |
if you were that sensitive you would be driving a ford oops, whoo said that??? different things mean different things to diferent people.as in wack, to some thats a light tapp, and to some it's a slap,to some it's beat the crap out of it till it is unrecognizable. kinda like a fat chick no Im not gonna go there. Locations can also alter the meaning or perception of a word or phrase. Ive lived around the world in a few diferent nations&countrys.so.......oh boy am I afu. kinda like the song says ,you cant please everyone so you gotta please your self. |
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michla
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2003
Posts: 331
Location: Wasilla, AK (yes, there's drag racing up here !)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
if you were that sensitive you would be driving a ford oops, whoo said that??? |
careful now....I drive a Ford as the tow rig to haul the race car to the track !  |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4856
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| michla wrote: |
| mark tucker wrote: |
if you were that sensitive you would be driving a ford oops, whoo said that??? |
careful now....I drive a Ford as the tow rig to haul the race car to the track ! |
So do I
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
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02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
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