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Barndoor frame heights?
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Jarrod worth
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

I am working on a 55 panel and piecing together a 53 21a. I have found all the dimentions of the frame top views on here and other sites. But I am looking for the front floor to bottom of main frame rails . and the same for the rear frame section To the battery tray flat section . I am building the 21a frame from scratch on a I beam chassis jig my plan is to build it over the next5 years part by part
any help appreciated

Cheers jarrod. I will try figure out how to put some pics up not the best computer skills
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Jarrod worth
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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joshbuchan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bump....one of you that has scratch built a Barny has to have some side view dimensions scribbled down? Or can someone with a straight non hit BD take some measurements to help a guy out here?
The panel has been tapped in the front and rear and the 53 DD is being built out of a handful of key parts Wink so we have nothing to go off.

Thx!!!
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joshbuchan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a little clarification of the question is needed......there are a few very nice drawings kicking around laying out all the measurements for I beams, top hats etc. (I tacked one onto the end of the pics) but we can't find a side view of frame elevations? Everybody likes pictures so here is what we have going on here....some sections just thin alum templates for adj. Going off a 54 and a 63 (both levelled up on frame jigs) we came up with some rough measurements....problem is the 63 has been rolled on its lid and the 54 took a decent tap to the drivers front so we don't want to build a 100% new frame off crooked frame measurements!!
The top of the main frame centre section seems to be around 100mm lower than the front floor level and the rear about 95mm for the top of frame at the battery tray area. Should both be 100mm? Splitting hairs yes but there were talks lastnight about going into a small production of full length BD frame rails after these 2 if the interest and demand is there? They will be 100% accurate in every way (only welded in a few areas that we can't press) could also provide entire chassis' in kit form ready to weld or jigged up and fully welded to slide under your rotten BD.......that get anybody's attention? Confused


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joshbuchan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's ok don't everybody post all at once! My bad thought this might be good info to have documented with all these swamp busses being recreated??

I think we will have it handled shortly, mays well delete this thread....sorry for wasting your time haha
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52panelvan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Your right on the front 100mm. The rear is a little harder because of its location and its difficult to measure on a complete bus sat on its wheels, you really need one in a jig to measure it properly where you can measure from the jig to deduce the difference.

I agree the measurement is very close to 95 mm at the back but I would need to check further. ( just put mine on a jig but the frame has the weight of the rear body on the end of those 2 rear chassis arms, and no where else till the front, so part loaded).
I drew the sheet above and it's revision 3 because its built from averages as every bus I thought was original were different.
Anyway good luck with your build.
Cheers

Mark
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joshbuchan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marc, thanks for chiming in! I agree it is quite tricky to get an accurate measurement on a built bus! Major props to you for making all your hard work on that schematic made public! Cool very cool of you man!!

We have both buses (early and late on jigs....the 63 is actually on a pro frame straightening/building table....very nice to have access to the good stuff! Our intention here wasn't to ask guys to climb under their BDs and try and accurately measure....we hoped that someone had mapped out a side view much like you had the top.
These things weren't built as China cabinets.....there are definitely variations as found in all high production vehicles!!
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52panelvan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'm glad the top view has helped. I only made it because I just couldn't find anything myself on the web when I did the Kempes and it seems to have gathered a life of its own since and been useful to a fair few people building buses which is just great.
The main reason it didn't have a front and view was because back in 2008 centre chassis sections replacements were more occasional I guess and besides I had the original front and rear chassis sections so it wasn't of great interest to me.

However roll forward to 2015 and in the last week I loaded the whole of the my latest (last) project onto a full car body jig too as I found it was becoming impossible to keep it square as the body was built onto it. It felt like dimensions would change when dust settled on it
Its the best thing I have done and why I didn't do this weeks ago escapes me. Its a dream to measure anything and everything from a fixed point Smile..

Anyway my point being may be a part 2 is required to the sheet above now I have that setup although its better to have a few buses to go from.
I will take a look
Cheers
Mark
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djfordmanjack
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

52panelvan wrote:
I loaded the whole of the my latest (last) project onto a full car body jig


haha, Mark, I know what you are talking about... Wink
I agree that the bare framerails are weak without any of the bodyparts on. you need to put it on a jig. I don't have access to the lower rear of my BD unfortunately at the moment.
But I don't think there were huge variations in the original production. both the full floor/chassis section and the full body sides were assembled in jigs and then put together in whole. so they had to be a very exact fit, unlike in an American car of the time, where the body could be shimmed on the chassis frame.
I think if there were differences to be found in old buses, it is because of hard use, impacts or bad repairs.
I remember that I had a side few of the BD rails somewhere in a book. keep looking but to no avail until now.
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Jarrod worth
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info I am impressed by some of the fabrication restoring these busses so I got one from behind my buddies barn. It's got a vin and some usable sheet metal (Well not much usable ) so I figuerd it would be a good project It's the hunt for the parts that keeps it exciting.
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beetleseb
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic!!

Great work really helping me with my 54 project

Does anyone have good scale drawings or templates of the front chassis rails? Mines really bad and toying between making my own and trying to buy some gerson ones.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

Just measuring my chassis bits and the front section seems to be around 95mm rather than 100mm. Splitting hairs but may be useful for someone
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Jarrod worth
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

I believe I. Used the 95mm for the front. I just got my first set of rails back from my buddies Waterjet shop . Frame rail jigs are almost done I Got them cut from 1 inch steel. to keep the rails straight with all the welding on them . I am hoping by spring to start loading parts on my chassis jig . The JJJ. Crew is In the middle of metalwork on a 54 panel right now.
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ingenbremser
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

old post, but did you agree on 100mm in front ?? i am a bit confused, so hope for a Clear yes or no Wink so i do start With the correct measures .
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

solved it myself tonight.. 100mm from top of front frame Down to frame under cargofloors. notice that the holes for the front bumperbrackets lines perfectly up With the top of the frame under cargofloors
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

I got mine at 95mm but obviously there is a little wiggle room with these old vws!
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ingenbremser
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

yes there is.. Wink
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Barndoor frame heights? Reply with quote

ingenbremser wrote:
yes there is.. Wink


Great. Thanks for sharing. Ím working on a computer sketch for a 52 dropgate and a 54 Panel resto, and Ím drawing a chassis I have.

Hope will get more details soon.

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