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1970 Convertible Rear Seat
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Evil_Fiz
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

I guess 7 was hungry so it 8 9.

I'm here all week... Cool

Great work Dave. I have an intact convertible seat bottom as well as a the matching back. I can take them apart and confirm your measurements if you think it will add value to the conversation. I can also draw a template in Illustrator once you are done measuring and upload it as a PDF that can be printed out at actual size.

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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Thanks!

The wood seems to fit but verification is never a bad thing.

I'll probably pull out my Convertible back seat back and open that up, see what kind of decay I have in there while I have the wood and tools out.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

And here it is!
1970 Convertible seat back.

Out of the Ghia basement closet!

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Last edited by djkeev on Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Today I'll sand down the cuts on the plywood and give it a protective coat to seal out the moisture.

I'll probably mount the steel reinforcement too. I will most like use some short carriage bolts and a nylon lock nut.

The Seat Foam smells of mildew and I will continue to set it out in the sun everyday until the smell dissipates.

In the past I've used Frebreeze, Baking Soda and even dryer sheets under the upholstery. Sometimes all of the techniques, I've had good luck.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

A rainy day, I decided to explore the rear seat back, which actually feels quite solid......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


However, I pulled the carpet off the back discovering that it was only glued to the wooden reinforcement frame, there is NOT any Plywood!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The top edge of the seat back has a strengthener bar. Probably because there isn't anything to bump up against. The seat back spans unsupported from side to side.
The has been rebuilt by soneone using chip Board....... guess what water does to chip board?!?!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by djkeev on Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Some basic dimensions of the seat back.
This will be a LOT easier to to make than the seat bottom board was!

The seat back is 36 5/16" wide at the bottom.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is also 36 5/16" wide at the top..... (hard to tell exactly but it is close)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is 17" tall .....

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

The wood reinforcement strips are 7/16" thick by 2 5/16" wide.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are two horizontal strips and three vertical strips.

The bottom edge of the two end strips are notched to accept the hinges.

A simple cut out 2 3/8 long by 3/16" wide.....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The top edge of the seat is also cut about 2 1/2"..... or so I think. The rot is severe which makes it unclear exactly what is cut......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

The wood reinforcement at the top is basically shredded wood.

If anyone can provide clear photos and dimemsions for this rail, that would be fantastic!

Also is the top edge cut or is mine simply rotted?

Looking at this photo posted earlier. The cutout at the bottom for the hinge is finite and does not continue to the bottom of the frame.

I also see that the reinforcement wood holds back from the plywood edge so the seat back sets flush when folded. (The sheetmetal is stepped to accept this)

I see screws along the top edge which most likely hold the reinforcement in place.

(Seat made by Loren for 1958 Convertible)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


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Last edited by djkeev on Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Having a REALLY BIG THINK!!! Think


If it wasn't raining so hard I'd go outside and measure the body where the seat back sits when folded.

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Redlabel6
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

The has been rebuilt by soneone using chip Board....... guess what water does to chip board?!?!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think the chipboard was factory, my '73 and a '72 i stripped down both had chipboard. Shocked
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Redlabel6 wrote:


I think the chipboard was factory, my '73 and a '72 i stripped down both had chipboard. Shocked


Huh!

I find that interesting that they would use such a poor product in such a vulnerable location.
Press board is garbage however it is used. It is a product I'll NEVER purchase.

Does anyone have a photo of their seat back stripped of the seat cover and / or foam?

Even though my Wife will be sewing a cover made to cover whatever I construct, it would be really nice to construct an original sized product.

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

The rains let up!

I sloshed outside to both the Ghia Shed and the Convertible tub.

In the Ghia shed I have the seat back from the 69 Coupe. It isn't "apples to apples" but it is very similar ....... though longer.

Here is a shot of the upper edge. I was surprised that the Coupe which has the rear package shelf to lean against, has the upper support rail!
(The support rail is facing down in the photo, the seat back is standing on the edge)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the edge of the seat back showing the step allowing it to sit flush with the rear luggage area......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note that step is just about 3/4" deep (not including the carpet) .....

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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NoDents
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Just a clarification to EVERYONE....

VW documentation refers to this as an "Emergency Seat", not a rear seat. I assume it was named as such to get around the fact that no seat belts are provided (DOT rules?)

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BUT it also makes me wonder: What kind of "emergency" must it be to be OK to use this seat?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

The width of the recess for the Convertible seat back is 36 11/16" ......


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The seat depth front to rear is 17 1/4"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Once you figure space for clearance the 17" x 36 5/16" seat back size makes complete sense!

The depth in the body is 11/16"

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So, I'm closing in on the dimensions, the overall thickness of the outside edge of the seat back is amazingly important!

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

NoDents wrote:
Just a clarification to EVERYONE....

VW documentation refers to this as an "Emergency Seat", not a rear seat. I assume it was named as such to get around the fact that no seat belts are provided (DOT rules?)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



BUT it also makes me wonder: What kind of "emergency" must it be to be OK to use this seat?


You are indeed correct!

VW ELIMINATED the emergency seat in the last years of Production.

For me....... it will be the dogs seat....... though Golden Retrievers and their fur and a Convertible can be a really FUN ride with the loose fur swirling about!!!! Shocked BTDT with the Miata........


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Evil_Fiz
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

I spent 2.5 Hrs. today deconstructing my 70 Convertible rear seat back. It will take me a few days to get all the measurements drawn up and confirmed. I took plenty of pictures so I will upload those as well.

Things i can confirm so far:
- The front elevated edge on the back side of the seat IS made of particle board.
- The piece is held in place by 5 long staples inserted from the strip into the wood below.
- It is 1 3/8" (35mm) tall with a ~1/8 radius at the top edges, 1" (25mm) across the top, and 1 1/8" (30mm) across the bottom.
- The outer corners of the strip slope slightly curved downward. I traced the profile and will provide a 1:1 scale picture later on.
- The wood frame is constructed with press fit mortise and tenon joints and held together by the Masonite board stapled to it.
- The foam pad is stretched width-wise at the time of installation. It shrank about 1 1/2" once I removed it.
- The assembled wood frame is 36 1/8" wide. I did not get to measure the length today.
- The seat back retaining brackets are mortised into the side rails and held in place by machine screws threaded into T-Nuts.

That is what I have for now. I will have more information in the coming days. I need to measure all the rabbets, relief cuts, and mortise/tenon connections.

...we're all in this together.
Emil
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Emil..... Thank You Thank You THANK YOU!!!!!

That is fantastic!

Dave
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Loren
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

These photos were from the rear seat I made for my 58 Ghia cabriolet, so some details will likely be different on later seats..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I made this seat for my Ghia by copying an original 58 Ghia cab seat and replicated the details as accurately as I could. It was a pain in the butt to make and I spent quite a while on the router table to get the details right. Here is another post on earlier cabriolet seat details, it might be of some assistance:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=373964&highlight=
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Loren, thanks for identifying this rear seat assembly photo.
It is interesting how little these bodies changed over the years.

As others chime in my comment about how easy the seat back will be to make seems to be increasingly fool hardy! Laughing

Masonite, chip board, mortise and tenon, and the items I circled in your photo.

The Green circle seems to be a chamfered edge on the rear support tab?

The Purple Circle seems to be some sort of hand hold in the top support rail?

The Red Circle seems to be an amazingly deep nortise for the hinge!

What was the material thickness you used for your seat back?
I posted a photo showing my 69 Coupe seat back being almost a total of 3/4" thick on the edge where it overhangs to lie flat.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 1970 Convertible Rear Seat Reply with quote

Whoa!!!

Just had a random brain spark!

Is what I am calling the upper seat reinforcement support piece not really supporting the seat back?

Is it actually a lip, when folded, to retain rear luggage from sliding forward when braking? Idea

Maybe a dual function? Think

Dave
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