may have a fight on my hands....

[skills@eurocarsplus]

Well, not really, but I just need the forums backing on this. Long story, but I am building a bus for a customer (this is the last bus I do for the general public)

Anyway, this guy had an engine built by a guy on here who is held on a platter to a degree. Anyway its a 1776 with dual(choked) solex single barrels. I told the guy that he was going to hate them, due to the goofy idle and tuning issues.

Fast forward to the other day. I hit the key, it pops and farts but runs "ok". Bailing smoke (black) and has the signature 2 cyl idle.

The builder told me not to use balance tubes (huge mistake) but in the customers interest, I will honor the builders request. This was "dyno tuned" but I feel it's not my problem, and the customer should pay to make it as good as it can be. I didn't build it, its full of china parts etc...

What would you do? I have had this bus for 8 months, but only logged 2 weeks worth of work on it....guy is over budget and I have stored it free in a heated/ac shop. I have to move on, but don't have it in me to stuff it outside but will have no choice soon
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[curtis4085]

Install it and move on... Hate to say it but the engine build is on the customer. You can only stand behind the work you performed.

I would be asking for storage fees at this point. Indoor space is a premium.
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Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com

[cmonSTART]

From a business and customer service standpoint, throw the ball into the customer's court. Lay the situation out for them, the engine needs some tuning based on your dyno experience with it. See if they want you to just press on and install it or put a couple more hours into it. Even if they want you to just go ahead and get it out of the shop you can leave it a bit open ended - we could just do some more work at a later date after some miles are on the bus - that might be easier for the customer to swallow.

You can lead a customer in a certain direction, but let it be their decision.. that prevents (or at least minimizes) disputes in the end.
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[skills@eurocarsplus]

What I am trying to do is avoid the blow out. Problem is, someone will ask "who built the bus" and the customer will go on and on about had bad it runs when "I let it go" from the shop.

They never say "skills killed it, but let me tell you about the engine guy" people have the perception the I "own it"...all of it.

He has been a reasonable guy for sure and I feel bad that he is over budget, but I can't help that. I don't control w.w. prices. I try to be fair on the labor, and have eaten a bunch of hours now.

I need like 2500/3500 more and that will make it as complete as I was hired to do...then off for interior
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[ccpalmer]

[ROCKOROD71]

[Greg in GA]

[Tom Powell]

You have a good/excellent reputation as evidenced by the buyers and sellers feedback. One person will not change that. The ball is/should be in the customers court and any complaints he has should be with the engine builder. Drive it out of the shop as is and deliver it back to the customer when he pays your final bill.

It's time for a divorce.

Aloha
tp

[SGKent]

It all comes back to one thing - what you promised the guy and at what price. If it is not in writing then he said she said and no one is going to be happy. Also you say he is over budget - your bill or the other guy? You answer it to yourself. Ask yourself - how would I want to be treated and how would a jury of peers feel about this. Life is not fair and no one may be happy with the outcome on this regardless.

If you agreed to tune it you are stuck. If you agreed to put the motor in and he paid the builder to tune it then the builder is stuck. The question will also be who provided the carbs and bolted them on.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I have more comments on the replies here...back soon have a disaster to deal with at the moment
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[cmonSTART]

Ya, documentation is so important.. Paperwork, photos, video, etc - there's no reason not to do it in an age where smartphones are everywhere. Get some pictures of your awesome work, maybe a video of the engine running mediocre on the dyno if you still can, and lots of photos/video of it just before it leaves your shop.

It's saved my bacon more than once! My wife and I own a business in a completely unrelated field, but the principle is the same.

Prepare for war, but assume that the customer is going to remain a friend - treat them fairly and honestly, and try to keep them as a customer.

Sorry, I'll stop now.
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[richparker]

[70westie]

Document everything.. Write it out for the customer.

State Facts:

I was hired to do ~this~.

Document that the engine was not built by you.

Clearly state what you have done:


I did ___
I did ___
I did ___


Give options:

Here is what I recommend you do:

Here is what I can do:

Here is what I will Not do:




Lay it all out in plain english, hand it over, and let the chips fall where they may.

-70

[jakokombi]

Perfection is a double edged sword. If you send that Bus out into the world with that motor,
it won't be perfect. If you touch the motor, you now own it... till the bitter end.
It sounds like the owner has found where to draw the line, now you have to as well.
Remember, it's the last customer bus you're gonna do anyway.
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70 Sunroof Kombi
69 Tin Top
73 Thing
72 Baja

[modernbeat]

I work for a shop that builds road race cars. Customers bring us their own parts to install, or cars with substandard work already performed. We simply refuse the work. It's that simple. Our reputation is golden and building with bad parts, or on a faulty foundation is a recipe for trouble and blame. We know better. The customer does not. One reason they come to us is because of our knowledge and judgement. If they don't respect that, there are other, lower quality, shops that will service them.

If I were in your shoes and the customer brought me a questionable or known-to-be-troublesome engine, and your shop builds engines, I would have either told them no, that you will not take the job unless you either built an engine or rebuilt their engine (regardless of how new it was). It was a matter of reputation and you wouldn't have your reputation tarnished by adding an engine that you knew to be substandard.

At this point, you're stuck. I'd just refuse to install the engine. Complete all the other work you are hired to do and return the rolling bus to the customer. They can install and tune their own bad parts.
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Jason McDaniel

[my59]

I'd consider a chat with the engine builder with dyno info and maybe a video if it can be managed. See what they have to say and then the those results to the owner. If nothing comes of the discussion with the builder you have it documented and the owner has all info possible to make some choices.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

good comments by all

my main question I suppose (and admit I went sideways on the question) is am I obligated to eat the time to make the engine right? I don't think so at all.

the bus came to me as a painted shell. I was hired to strip the bus/reassemble the bus. upon stripping it, I made a 4-5 page list of all missing/broken/worn the F*ck out parts.

while it was getting body work done, the owner never contacted me on buying parts. this would have taken the sting out of the overall cost. I estimated around 10-15k parts and labor. I figured about 6k to reassemble the bus...that included blast/paint/polish and so on. (you guys have seen my work, and the speed at which I can do it)

the issue is I feel everyone wants the Subaru bus...but for 10k. as it is, I am working for him at a discounted rate, about 30/hr less than my shop rate.

when he came to see the bus, I could tell he was fed up, but swears it's not with me, but the cost. to add insult to injury I stopped detailing his bus after month 3...his bus should have been a no brainer put back together in a month, month and a half IF I HAD ALL the parts. I was having a tough time finding him. wouldn't respond to emails/text/calls for days....sometimes weeks. so, I wasn't wasting my time microfiber/spray waxing his bus.

never in my life have I had to hound a customer to finish a project...yet it has been in my way this whole time. I don't need/want to be responsible for the first scratch on this thing
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[borninabus]

as a fellow VW professional, i am not seeing what the issue is...

did you build the engine? no.
were you hired to "fine tune" the engine? doesn't sound like it.

i know for a fact that our shop is always honest and goes above and beyond on nearly every job.
does that mean that there is no one out there that that has something bad to say about us? probably not.
some people just can't be pleased and those are the ones that you just have to let go (and as you've said: sometimes it's the situation, not the person).

i let my wrenches speak for themselves.
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport

[Tom Powell]

Who did the "dyno tuning"? Is the engine in the vehicle? Can you deliver it to him "as is". Does he owe you money now for work that has been done? Do you have the "mechanics lien" process in CT? If he doesn't reply in a timely manner, put the ball in his court and play hardball.

You have a good reputation and it won't be tarnished by one person, or an engine builder and his customer. They may not want to do business with you again and that may be a blessing.

Aloha
tp

[bwaz]

Don't run it. Finish your part and have it taken to the engine builders shop to complete the work. When it's runnning, have it back to finish your details... if it gets that far. Your part of the bargain is completed, get paid for the work done before it leaves. You can have it go knowing your part was done well and the motor part left to the motor builder.