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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wasn't saying this because of resale value. Overall total cost might be less if you start with a water cooled van or better yet, buy an already converted Subaru van. many of them pop up for less than $20k. If you could sell yours for $10k, you would be ahead. Also the learning curve will be steep if you're trying to do it yourself. It will take you three times longer than you think. You could email some of these guys for advice.


Some other posts FYI:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578952

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=580297

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=211117

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=212084

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=623804

Rocky Mountain Westy wrote:
There are a lot of people that will tell you can do this whole project for $2500. If it happens for that price you will not end up with a reliable van. I would say you should probably budget $8-10k from where you are at and that includes doing a lot of work on your own.

CHeers

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VWinVT
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not investigating/carrying out this conversion do sell the van anytime in the next 20 years...we have 2 children under 3 and plan to travel with them...resale value has nothing to do with this
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VWinVT wrote:
...another air-cooled conversion.


So you're going to retrofit an entire cooling system to the van?

It might be easier and cheaper in the long run to sell your van and buy a water cooled model instead.

Also, consider the depreciation of your van after converting from air cooled to water cooled. As a seasoned vanagon owner, I would never consider buying a home brew conversion especially AC to WC. It would be totally out of the question because of all the unknowns. I think your value goes way down.

Unless your van is a $500 pos, you might be better served selling and starting over. There is a good market for those wanting air cooled vans.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howesight wrote:

Have a look at this example and note the green arterial plaque: (not my engine, BTW)

How'd you get a pic of my engine internals?!

(Just kidding, or at least I hope so!)
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VWinVT
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had contacted Bostig awhile back and they were not eager to do another air-cooled conversion. I will try them again. The idea of a domestic motor is attractive as far as parts availability and cost.
I have just gotten another lead to an 01 Forrester with 78,000 miles, complete car…going to give it a look.
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JudoJeff
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VWinVT,

At least check out the Bostig conversion, much, much easier to do than a subi. Very DIY oriented, I'm not a mechanic and I did it. My costs are posted here and on the Bostig site.

There are many low mileage zetec engines in New England junkyards, price ranges of $300-$700. These are rock solid 200k designs, and are as easy to work on as those tractor motors. I compare them to the old flat head 4 cylinder engines, (if anyone remembers them!)
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Howe.
Another reason to get the entire vehicle.
Flush fresh oil through it and double flush the cooling system with a chemical to remove deposits, than water to get all the buggers out.
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Howesight
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any Subaru engine with over 50,000 miles that you want to transplant into a Vanagon should have the head gaskets replaced. It's cheap and easy to do with the engine out. In the vehicle, it's a nightmare.

If you can find an engine that was run on synthetic oil most of its life (I realize you need to trust the seller's word on this), the engine is going to be far better inside and far less likely to have Subaru Sticky Rings Syndrome (SSRS).

An engine that the records show had regular coolant changes is also preferable. Subies, like WBX's can develop pitting in the aluminum on the heads and on the block.

Have a look at this example and note the green arterial plaque: (not my engine, BTW)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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levi
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottShelley wrote:
Levi,

What year engine and what conversion? Pm me if you prefer

Scott


levi wrote:
davevickery wrote:
insyncro wrote:
Plenty who can't afford a conversion are looking for good running WBXers.
I sell them when sealed, with all good components for $1200-$1500..


In the spirit of shameless plugs...
my engine is coming out in June. I was told it has new heads. Truthfully I haven't looked at the receipts or checked compression, but if someone is local to Colorado, I will post it up in the Classifieds and you can have it checked out while it is in the van.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1783315
Dave


Endorsing the "spirit of shameless plugs", I dropped my 2.2 several months ago to start a 1.8t conversion.

I thought about getting a leak down and compression test, but the combination of really wanting to get started right away on the new conversion/ hassle and cost of the leakdown and compression test, caused me to JUST DROP the 2.2 suby and get on with it.

In hindsight I should have been patient and paid for the tests.... as a result I will be selling mine engine complete with all the conversion parts for probably right around the cost of the parts themselves, engine effectively for free. It may already be sold. I have only been in contact with one person regarding this.

So I agree with following Insyncro's advice. Embarassed


It's a 1994 with about 100,000 on it, but like I said, I believe it's already spoken for.
If that deal falls through I'll contact you.

Actually what I'm waiting for is to make 100% sure that this new conversion is a success and roadworthy before I sell the suby. I like having something to fall back to. Cool

I don't really intend this as a plug for my ej22.
I'm trying to needle Davevickery into getting compression/leakdown tests on his before he drops it.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm giving away a decent ej22 long-ish block. See classified for details if you're interested. It would be best suited as a rebuilder as I think it needs rings, but otherwise actually quite nice and full of low mile parts (did I mention it's free!)

Only local pickup

My own shameless plug - for the good of the conversion folk out there.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Levi,

What year engine and what conversion? Pm me if you prefer

Scott


levi wrote:
davevickery wrote:
insyncro wrote:
Plenty who can't afford a conversion are looking for good running WBXers.
I sell them when sealed, with all good components for $1200-$1500..


In the spirit of shameless plugs...
my engine is coming out in June. I was told it has new heads. Truthfully I haven't looked at the receipts or checked compression, but if someone is local to Colorado, I will post it up in the Classifieds and you can have it checked out while it is in the van.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1783315
Dave


Endorsing the "spirit of shameless plugs", I dropped my 2.2 several months ago to start a 1.8t conversion.

I thought about getting a leak down and compression test, but the combination of really wanting to get started right away on the new conversion/ hassle and cost of the leakdown and compression test, caused me to JUST DROP the 2.2 suby and get on with it.

In hindsight I should have been patient and paid for the tests.... as a result I will be selling mine engine complete with all the conversion parts for probably right around the cost of the parts themselves, engine effectively for free. It may already be sold. I have only been in contact with one person regarding this.

So I agree with following Insyncro's advice. Embarassed
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levi
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

davevickery wrote:
insyncro wrote:
Plenty who can't afford a conversion are looking for good running WBXers.
I sell them when sealed, with all good components for $1200-$1500..


In the spirit of shameless plugs...
my engine is coming out in June. I was told it has new heads. Truthfully I haven't looked at the receipts or checked compression, but if someone is local to Colorado, I will post it up in the Classifieds and you can have it checked out while it is in the van.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1783315
Dave


Endorsing the "spirit of shameless plugs", I dropped my 2.2 several months ago to start a 1.8t conversion.

I thought about getting a leak down and compression test, but the combination of really wanting to get started right away on the new conversion/ hassle and cost of the leakdown and compression test, caused me to JUST DROP the 2.2 suby and get on with it.

In hindsight I should have been patient and paid for the tests.... as a result I will be selling mine engine complete with all the conversion parts for probably right around the cost of the parts themselves, engine effectively for free. It may already be sold. I have only been in contact with one person regarding this.

So I agree with following Insyncro's advice. Embarassed
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ScottShelley
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another possibility would be to find a cheap Subie, pull the necessary components and use it as a core. I think Ron(Syncro Jael) got a rebuilt ej22 for about $2200 or so from Metric Motors.

On my last conversion I purchased a complete rebuilt EJ 22 with modified harness, shortened oil pan and complete Kennedy kit for $7000.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love shameless plugs Wink

Video of it running, leak down and compression tests will really get you more $ than when not offered, at least in my experiences.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
Plenty who can't afford a conversion are looking for good running WBXers.
I sell them when sealed, with all good components for $1200-$1500..


In the spirit of shameless plugs...
my engine is coming out in June. I was told it has new heads. Truthfully I haven't looked at the receipts or checked compression, but if someone is local to Colorado, I will post it up in the Classifieds and you can have it checked out while it is in the van.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1783315
Dave


Last edited by davevickery on Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked a simlar question a couple weeks ago, about how to get a level of confidence that you get a bullet proof 2.5 that also doesn't use oil. Everyone focused on the oil useage, but both are equally important to me. And most answers focus on the low budget options.

I think you have to include a price range and find the best thing in that range.

If the budget is $500, you have to get creative and take some risk. Some of these guys seem better at finding deals and assessing engines. But at $500 I imagine you are just hoping for a good one, plus you'll have to sell the extra parts.

I don't know what scenario gets you a less risky $1500 donor, maybe a junkyard/auction car and then you rebuild the motor yourself.

If you go up to $2500 you can buy a driving donor car that you can live with and make sure it is good. But it still will have high miles at that price and you'll pay tax and tabs if you want to drive it for a while. You might get lucky and find a car for sale that has really high miles but a more recent rebuilt engine. But even those might use a lot of oil after installing it.

At $4,000 you can get a new short block, have the heads rebuilt at a shop, and buy a junk car.

It's probably $5K to do the same thing but buy a completely rebuilt longblock. I don't know enough if that is any better than a new shortblock and rebuilt heads. You can also get a later model wrecked car with low miles.

Maybe there are other options in different price ranges/risk. I am looking at the more expensive higher probability choices. I had 2 bum subaru motors, 1st one spun the rod bearings, and it was a JDM with supposedly low miles, and the replacement drank an annoying amount of oil (around 100K on that one).
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty who can't afford a conversion are looking for good running WBXers.
I sell them when sealed, with all good components for $1200-$1500.
That helps when converting.
Sell the sucker before it isn't worth dirt.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:
insyncro wrote:

I'm glad someone else brought up the Zetec so I can plug Bostig.
RG5 has 4 spots left.
Anyone outside California would be smart to read up on the Bostig conversion...awesome, just awseome Exclamation


I almost wish my WBX was running poorly so I'd have the excuse. Maybe I'll find some bad news at this weekend's oil change.


That's your problem! Stop changing the oil, in fact stop even checking the oil, and you'll have a Zetec in there within a year... Wink Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:

I'm glad someone else brought up the Zetec so I can plug Bostig.
RG5 has 4 spots left.
Anyone outside California would be smart to read up on the Bostig conversion...awesome, just awseome Exclamation


I almost wish my WBX was running poorly so I'd have the excuse. Maybe I'll find some bad news at this weekend's oil change.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:
Does the advice of obtaining a motor directly only from a car you've seen running apply equally to Zetec?


I am fortunate to have a great source for Zetecs who calls me when the cars come in to be parted.
I head over and see them, drive them just before they are pulled from the car.

My other Zetecs are brand new crate motors from Cosworth, a division of Ford racing.

Not many brand new complete, with wiring, Subarus around....and if they are...not less than $1500 like these motors.

I'm glad someone else brought up the Zetec so I can plug Bostig.
RG5 has 4 spots left.
Anyone outside California would be smart to read up on the Bostig conversion...awesome, just awseome Exclamation
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