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bwalters Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2011 Posts: 2 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: motorcycle carrier |
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I have a 200# scooter that I would like to carry behind my vanagon on a rack that attaches to the hitch. I know the carrier can handle the weight but what about my westy? Is that too much weight on the back? anyone know? appreciate any input. thanks |
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iliketowalk Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2011 Posts: 614 Location: Northern CA
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buildyourown Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009 Posts: 1668 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I respectfully disagree with Gary Lee on that one. I think a hitch could absolutley be made strong enough for a 300# bike as long as it is integrally tied into the bumper mounts.
I've put a lot on my GW bumper. Close to 200# I figure, and not loaded as evenly and close to the van as a moto would be.
Look at the GW swing out that is shown with 4 jerry cans and a spare tire. That's about 200# right there.
But yeah, it will require some custom fab. |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10238 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I have a buddy who made a simple hitch to get his dirt bike to local trails for a light duty Toyota minivan. Picture a steel channel welded onto a removable square tube that fits in the hitch. It's oriented so he lifts the front wheel up into the channel and runs it forward to a vertical channel section as a stopping brace. The brace has a stout ratcheting strap to secure the motorcycle tire, which is now held by the channels against movement in any direction. The rear tire simply coasts along behind.
It only puts about 70lbs on the van and works really well. I don't think it's viable to do this at higher speeds or longer distances simply because nobody knows if some component would heat up in the tranny without the engine running.
Anyhow, it's an idea for some to use. _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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No mession around with this one.
http://burleysmotorsports.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=55
I have a the regualr-load version and have loaded up 300lbs plus.
Get the right hitch and its not the problem.. your rear suspension and tires will be taxed, though.
Do a search on "tow" and "hitch" or "motorcycle rack"
And be prepared to read.
Here's one to get you started:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...mp;start=0
LOTS has been written.. and at least one member here carries a larger dirt bike on a rack with his. Air-ride suspension mods.
IMHO.. The Vanagon can handle 350 lbs of weight on the rear IF you make some modest upgrades to the rear suspension.
You probably need to invest about $1000 to do it comfortably.. and lord knows you can spend more.
-jim _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of carrying capacity depends on road conditions. It's fairly easy to haul a bike down an asphalt surface and have it stay on, quite a different matter off road or on washboard. Constant intense vibration multiplies the stress that hitch receiver takes--probably why Gary Lee has his doubts.
I'm in the process of building a front mount system as I don't want to subject the rear to even more weight. 175 lb. Honda CT70, fits between the headlights. I'm using a Moto Jack rack with built-in hydraulic lift. Hard part is mounting the hitch receiver. |
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wenholzm Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2010 Posts: 140
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Californio wrote: |
A lot of carrying capacity depends on road conditions. It's fairly easy to haul a bike down an asphalt surface and have it stay on, quite a different matter off road or on washboard. Constant intense vibration multiplies the stress that hitch receiver takes--probably why Gary Lee has his doubts.
I'm in the process of building a front mount system as I don't want to subject the rear to even more weight. 175 lb. Honda CT70, fits between the headlights. I'm using a Moto Jack rack with built-in hydraulic lift. Hard part is mounting the hitch receiver. |
Would be interested in seeing some pics, the PO of my 85 Westy had a hitch mounted to the front, he used to pull it to Mexico behind some large RV. It would be a great place for me to install something for a motorcycle. I am concerned about air flow to the rad, and as you mention not to obstuct the headlamps. |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Californio wrote: |
A lot of carrying capacity depends on road conditions. It's fairly easy to haul a bike down an asphalt surface and have it stay on, quite a different matter off road or on washboard. Constant intense vibration multiplies the stress that hitch receiver takes--probably why Gary Lee has his doubts.
I'm in the process of building a front mount system as I don't want to subject the rear to even more weight. 175 lb. Honda CT70, fits between the headlights. I'm using a Moto Jack rack with built-in hydraulic lift. Hard part is mounting the hitch receiver. |
Wow... you're looking down an interesting road.
I am not attempting to load a bike.. not yet anyway.. but in all my research for the trailer hitch (up to tongue weights of 350lbs) and in working with Burley on the ones linked above, I came to the conclusion that if you are gonna haul/add this type of weight to a Vanagon, you'll have more flexibility to work with off the rear suspension.
1. Its easier to upgrade and tune the rear springs/shocks.
2. Alignment is simpler.
3. There are bolt-on gas shocks available and/or helper shocks. You can even go with reservoir shocks (pricey) in the rear if you are going to be really beating the washboard.
4. The Vanagon frame is easier to bolt up to in the rear, without modifying frame and or impacting design. No interference.
If you add ~200 lbs to the front AND have a passneger along for the ride.. the front suspension will REALLY be pushed.
There's a thread on here where a Monroe Sensatrac shock is used in the front (coil over load assist - Samba member "Snoop").. That might help with some of the added weight.. hmm.. But then what about shock abuse on less than smooth roads? Added wear and tear on the more complicated $$$ front suspension and steering mechanics?
Hmm.. quite a challenge. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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davevickery Samba Member
Joined: July 16, 2005 Posts: 2887 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: |
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IdahoDoug wrote: |
I have a buddy who made a simple hitch to get his dirt bike to local trails for a light duty Toyota minivan. Picture a steel channel welded onto a removable square tube that fits in the hitch.... |
I bought one of the many variations of these on e-bay. I towed a bike as many as 250 miles with it. I used it to drop van off for service too. Pretty handy and works if you don't have space for a trailer but a trailer is better. The height of the front wheel off the ground is critical as the bike leans in corners. Too high and the bike can fall over, see I have a drop down hitch attachment on this picture, because it happened to me.
Personally, I like this one place narrow trailer. A folding trailer would be even better.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...K:MEWAX:IT |
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Homercules Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2010 Posts: 141 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: |
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davevickery wrote: |
IdahoDoug wrote: |
I have a buddy who made a simple hitch to get his dirt bike to local trails for a light duty Toyota minivan. Picture a steel channel welded onto a removable square tube that fits in the hitch.... |
I bought one of the many variations of these on e-bay. I towed a bike as many as 250 miles with it. I used it to drop van off for service too. Pretty handy and works if you don't have space for a trailer but a trailer is better. The height of the front wheel off the ground is critical as the bike leans in corners. Too high and the bike can fall over, see I have a drop down hitch attachment on this picture, because it happened to me.
Personally, I like this one place narrow trailer. A folding trailer would be even better.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...K:MEWAX:IT |
I like the looks of the little trailer. Not a bad price too.
I've been trying to come up with some sort of carrier for my bike as well and I just don't want to spend a pile of money on beefing up the rear end of my syncro. It will interfere with opening the rear hatch (which I need to open to add oil) and climb the ladder to get to my cargo basket.
The problem I see with the one you have posted is A) having to remove the chain for longer trips and B) how much can the head bearings take from pulling the bike like that? _________________ 89 Syncro |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I had a Suzuki DR650 for many yrs.. unless riding to my destination it was trailered, only.. (but never behind my Westy.. I owned an 81 A/C in those days).
I just can't imagine doing much "syncroing" with that one wheel tow setup.
If modding the rear suspension for a rack is not your ideal.. I'd go with an honest-to-god trailer.. preferably off-road capable.. but then you're back to spending some real money. min $200 for hitch and various asundries.. trailer (more $$$), tie-downs etc.
Its gonna cost one way or another.. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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burleymotorsports Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2005 Posts: 332
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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The one wheel deal is an interesting concept, not sure that the motorcycle oiling system is set up to for that kind of use. The Burley Motorsports trailer hitches are made '' Burley '' especially our heavy duty version , The cross member on our heavy duty model features a 1/4'' wall thickness and will hold far more weight than the van should be towing. I designed these with the motorcycle folks in mind, because there load is cantalevered out from the edge of the van because of the handle bar width. I have sold many and everyone loves it. Having there M/C on the back is a lot nicer than hassling with a trailer. _________________ Protect your investment !
Buy only genuine Burley Motorsports products
I will not see your PM.
Please email us directly through our website at http://www.burleymotorsports.net . Thank you.
Web: http://www.burleymotorsports.net
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/burleymotorsports
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/burleymotorsports |
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SWbySWesty Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2010 Posts: 327 Location: Adventureville, CA
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burleymotorsports Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2005 Posts: 332
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: |
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SWbySWesty wrote: |
Mine is a custom job I did with a buddy. Works great with Airlift bags in the back.
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Keep an eye on your AirLift bags.
With that kind of weight back there, the AirLifts lasted only a couple weeks in my application.
I gave up on them after a third replacement sprung a leak... but I left them in as "bumper stops" because they also destroyed the OEM bumperstops and I lost one along the way.
Airlift bags are a reasonable short term compromise for modest loads.. I'd consider a dirtbike more than modest.
One step up from AirLift are the Monroe Sensatrac coil over shocks.
Gabrial also makes an air adjustable shock worth looking at.
Both are a compromise patch fix... though not too pricey, at all.
I am on 2+yrs using the Sensatracs with fairly abusive driving tendencies.. and they've held up fine. Just one complaint. The plastic spacer sleeve disintegrated and the springs are making contact with the shock body = "sqeaks"
In fact. Mr. Burley (posting above) will be beefing up the shock brackets on his custom trailing arms to take it up a notch for my application.
Thanks Mr Burley!..
Truly.
Built burley! _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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hiram6 Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2006 Posts: 1880 Location: Beautiful South
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: |
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burleymotorsports wrote: |
The one wheel deal is an interesting concept, not sure that the motorcycle oiling system is set up to for that kind of use. The Burley Motorsports trailer hitches are made '' Burley '' especially our heavy duty version , The cross member on our heavy duty model features a 1/4'' wall thickness and will hold far more weight than the van should be towing. I designed these with the motorcycle folks in mind, because there load is cantalevered out from the edge of the van because of the handle bar width. I have sold many and everyone loves it. Having there M/C on the back is a lot nicer than hassling with a trailer. |
I can tell you for sure that the Kawasaki Ninja 250 oiling system is not set up for this. I used one of these one wheel up hitch mounts to tow my bike and suffered in doing over $1200 worth of damage to the transmission. On that bike, if the engine is running then the oil pump isn't pumping, and the engine oil pump is what lubes the transmission. Never again. _________________ 1985 Westy, 1.9L automatic (Daisy)
1996 Mazda Miata
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
You can't lie around on the beach and drink rum all day.................unless you start first thing in the morning. |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10238 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Did you mean to say if the engine "isn't" running? I'm assuming so. The suggestion of removing the chain for long trips is a good one - then it's just bearings spinning and they should be easily up to this task.
DougM _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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Californio Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Seems like, for those of you who want to haul your bike on the rear, there would be a way to put the rear wheel in the carrier and let the front wheel turn, no? easier than pulling the chain anyway.
For me, I already have all the goodies on the back (spare tire, ladder, gas can) so there is no way I can put a bike back there.
My concern is with ripping the front frame cross member under the bumper out by driving on serious washboard. The mount I'm using (GoWesty) bolts straight through the frame member, and I've welded several lengths of 1/4" mild steel angles to even out the stress. Essentially it works like a clamp around the front frame member. We'll see.
Several people, including the GoWesty team, have done this, so there must be a way to modify the front suspension to handle the extra weight. |
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SWbySWesty Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2010 Posts: 327 Location: Adventureville, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
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burleymotorsports wrote: |
Very nice , both the rack and the bike. I checked out your blog and saw pictures of your adventure with some of my freinds Syncros in them , Syncrozilla , of coares my favorite because I did all the work to it , and my friend Bill with his Green one. Looks like fun and hope to get in the next run. Keep up the good work |
Thank you. It was a fun time!
j_dirge wrote: |
Keep an eye on your AirLift bags.
With that kind of weight back there, the AirLifts lasted only a couple weeks in my application.
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Thanks, but I only will be hauling the bike ~10x per year when I go camping. Otherwise, they have improved the ride considerably and fixed my sag problem. Staying on topic, true, it can be a short term fix, but I consider what I do while transporting the bike to be short term as well. I also commute on my motorcycle with supermoto setup - so the van usually just sits. I try to move it around once a week and try to camp once a month.
IdahoDoug wrote: |
Did you mean to say if the engine "isn't" running? I'm assuming so. The suggestion of removing the chain for long trips is a good one - then it's just bearings spinning and they should be easily up to this task.
DougM |
Do NOT remove your chain. Removing and replacing the master link over and over increases your chances of master link failure resulting in bad bad things. Proven fact. _________________ 1986 Westy - Billie Jean
A Westy with a Jeep heart (Pura Vida)
www.theadventurebrigade.blogspot.com - Latest update: Johnson Valley - Nov 22, 2011 |
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j_dirge Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007 Posts: 4641 Location: Twain Harte, CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Californio wrote: |
Several people, including the GoWesty team, have done this, so there must be a way to modify the front suspension to handle the extra weight. |
I am not a huge fan of GW engineering. I think thier stuff is OK, and I used thier tow loop hitch for many yrs.
But they compromise in thier designs earlier than I would like.. Seem to quick to appease a nifty concept over pracitical application.. which is why I went to Burley.
No compromises. Solid experience. No hype.
Modding the front suspension has its limits.. arguably much lower limits than what can be done in the rear. Admittedly that s just my limited experience, speaking.
That said.. I am also going off of advice from others beyond the Vanagon community.. and almost to the person, I have been advised to keep big weight off the front suspension of any vehicle.. if at all possible.
I have a several thousand miles of Baja under my belt,.. various rigs.. and I can respect more seasoned advice..
But lets face it.. we can't have it all.
Washboard beats the crap out of even highly modified rigs.. let alone loaded up Vanagons.. I just don't see it being practical to build to those goals.. unless one is willing to take the added risks, assume the added wear and tear, that is. I mean geez.. If you break off a carrier bracket 200 miles offroad in Baja. You're screwed.
One or two bicycles.. sure.. but a 200-350lb enduro? not so great.
And we haven't even touched on the need for better brakes if one is carrying big weights cantilevered out on either end of the van.
I will have a rear tire carrier shortly.. and my 4-up bicycle rack clears that. I am beginning to resemble the Clampetts.
Beyond that? I'd give up on the hitch racks and carriers and go to a trailer.
Gas cans, jacks/stands, tools etc.. would go in the trailer. Once a trailer is employed you can unload all the stuff off the rear carriers to distribute wieght more evenly. Becomes a security challenge, though.
ALL that said.. I enjoy seeing the results of others endeavors along these lines.. Front or rear.. I think pushing the envelope is a good thing.
Helps us all find reasonable limits. _________________ -89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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