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New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!)
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Diagnosis: regulator.

Checked voltage across battery with engine running, no charging system output.

Disconnected regulator from generator, performed full field test on generator. Generator cranked out the voltage up past 30v - stopped test because it was obvious that generator was fine.

Suspected regulator at this point - all connections on regulator were secure. Swapped in a spare Bosch electro-mechanical regulator I had on hand and I was back in business - red light out and charging system working.

The failed regulator is a modern electronic regulator installed in an original Bosch case by Clover Systems. I installed it back in June of last year so I'm a little disappointed it didn't last much more than a year. I took the cover off to see if I could see anything obvious as far as a failure point (burn marks, evidence of heat, etc) but everything looked fine visually.

I've reached out to Gordon @ Clover Systems and I hope to be able to send it to him for failure analysis.

In the meantime I'll ride with the old-school Bosch.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Today I got around to tackling the replacement of the front turn signal housing-to-body seals.

It has been quite a while since I've driven in the rain but even so the right side turn signal still had water in it. Rolling Eyes

I discovered that the seal had failed maybe a week+ ago when my turn signal bulb went out. It turned out that the bulb was fine, but the seal had failed on its top inside the fender area allowing water spray from the wheel to enter the back of the turn signal housing. This water just sits in there and caused corrosion to the bulb and housing, eventually causing the turn signal to drop out.

So here's what failed - repop turn signal housing to body seal from ISP West, bought and installed originally about 2 years ago because the one I had on the car at the time had also failed in the same way:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm sticking my finger through to show the major tear but you can see it also failed in another spot too.

Unfortunately all that water did a number on the surface of the reflector inside the housing. The reflective part was basically flaking off by this point.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I spent some time on it with my Dremel and a wire wheel and it actually polished up pretty nice.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


However I decided to try and rehab it a little bit further. Masked everything off but the reflector and hit it with some primer and then some Rust-Oleum "chrome" paint. Came out pretty good for a quick hit; I don't know how this is gonna hold up so I didn't really spend any time going for the smoothest possible finish.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The good news is it's a lot more reflective than it was and it is as reflective as the good chrome on the rest of the housing.

I also was able to separate the plastic cap from the bulb holder and clean up the contacts - I let it soak in vinegar for a couple hours while I was doing the cleaning and painting. The vinegar did a fantastic job removing the corrosion from the bulb contacts; then I hit 'em with a wire wheel for final cleanup.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Put it all back together on the car and it looks and works great!

The left side seal had not failed yet so there was not the issue over there of water in the housing and corrosion. However I replaced both of the seals today because if one was dead the other can't be far behind.

Now anybody got a line on NOS turn signal housing-to-body seals? Very Happy
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I forget: Are you using sealed beam headlamps? The dual filament bulbs were started around 67 for the US market.
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

ataraxia wrote:
I forget: Are you using sealed beam headlamps? The dual filament bulbs were started around 67 for the US market.


The car had sealed beams when I got it; I have since swapped out to Cibie E-code lenses with H4 bulbs.

I believe this was a Euro-market car originally that was brought over to the States at some point and Federalized - it has an MPH speedometer; it had sealed beams; it has the "flash-to-pass" headlight dimmer relay; it has dual-filament front wraparounds; but it still has the parking lights on the front fenders and they work as they are supposed to for Euro-spec.

The thought has crossed my mind to get H4 housings with city lights and just use the wraparounds for turn signals. Smile
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Just to close the loop on the below:

Gordon had me ship him the regulator for diagnosis. After some testing, he found a bad feed-through on the PCB for one of the diodes which was making a poor connection.

He repaired it quickly and sent it back and now it's up and running great again.


sjbartnik wrote:
Diagnosis: regulator.

I've reached out to Gordon @ Clover Systems and I hope to be able to send it to him for failure analysis.


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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Did you get those shiny new parts installed? Very Happy
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Busy weekend!

Had to pull the engine on suspicion of a failing throwout bearing (rumbly engine-speed bearing noise only with clutch pedal fully depressed) and I was also getting an occasional weird noise & vibration when engaging the clutch - not always, mostly when engine cold, and only when moving off from a stop in first. I wasn't sure what it was but given the throwout bearing symptoms I figured it could be related to that or perhaps a broken throwout bearing retaining clip; maybe a broken spring on the 3-finger style pressure plate; maybe a bad pilot bearing.

Got the engine out no problem. Harbor Freight motorcycle/ATV jack was the winner of the day here.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is what I found in the bellhousing:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Little pool of gear oil with a trail oozing down from the input shaft seal. Thankfully not enough to have fouled the clutch, just enough to make a mess. Luckily I had on hand a new Elring German replacement. The old leaking one may have been original - it was pretty hard and had a VW logo on it.

The throwout bearing retaining clips were in fact still in place however they were the original style and secured the bearing to the cross shaft pretty loosely.

The throwout bearing itself was one installed by Keith when he had the car. Couldn't find a manufacturer name on it, just lettering indicating it was made in Brazil.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It felt smooth when turning it by hand but turning it by hand doesn't accurately simulate the speed and pressure it normally operates under. And since I was getting the standard throwout bearing symptom and since I was in there anyway, I replaced it with a new Sachs German bearing.

Here are the two bearings side-by-side, Brazilian on the left and Sachs on the right.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The Brazilian one has a bit of a rounded surface where the bearing contacts the pressure plate while the Sachs contact surface is flat. The Brazilian bearing as a whole is thicker than the Sachs bearing so I anticipate I'll have to adjust the clutch free play once I get it all back together.

I did not find any issues with the 3-finger pressure plate but I have a new Sachs diaphragm-style pressure plate on hand that I will probably install in favor of the 3-finger.

Clutch disc itself was in great shape; plenty of life left.

No obvious issues with pilot bearing in the gland nut - seems to turn smoothly.

You can see in the bellhousing photo that the rear transmission mounts aren't looking so hot, left one especially. Ordered up some replacements.

Did some other minor stuff that was nice and easy to do with the engine out; new spark plugs, new plug wires, replaced fuel hoses, new fuel filter, etc.

One weird thing; upon removing the existing spark plugs, all Bosch Super W8AC, they all had these weird ash deposits on them. WTF? Time to try a new gas station?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Pelle
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:


Couldn't find a manufacturer name on it, just lettering indicating it was made in Brazil.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The Brazilian bearing is made by INA. You can see the name over the part number.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Pelle wrote:

The Brazilian bearing is made by INA. You can see the name over the part number.


Thanks! I wasn't familiar with INA so I didn't recognize it as a brand name.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Hi all, question time:

As I have the engine out, I am replacing the pressure plate and throwout bearing. Throwout bearing is new Sachs German, pressure plate is new Sachs diaphragm-style (replacing original 3-finger style). The clutch disc itself appears to be almost new so I am not replacing it.

Today I mounted up the new pressure plate with old clutch disc. It looks like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note: everything is centered, it only appears off due to the angle of the camera relative to the pressure plate.

My question is: has anyone ever had any issues using a diaphragm-style pressure plate with centering ring with and old clutch disc? It seems the snout of the clutch disc is gonna be a pretty close fit through that centering ring. Photos I've seen of new clutch discs seem to have much less of a snout than the older ones. For example:

New Sachs sprung 200mm clutch disc:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


versus one that looks more similar to mine:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note the seemingly longer snout.

I don't really have a good sense of how far the travel is for the throwout bearing/pressure plate. Anybody ever had a problem or tried this assembly and it worked out fine?
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Tram
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I have had experiences in the past with the driven plate's snout interfering with the drive plate. Take it off and lay the driven plate on a flat surface. Invert the drive plate and make sure the hole in the release area fits all the way down on the snout with no interference.

If there's interference get a correct driven plate.

EDIT: Drive plate = pressure plate, driven plate= disc. Sorry about the techie talk.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Tram,
Thanks. I did your test. In the 3-finger pressure plate, I can fit the entire snout of the clutch disc all the way through the collar until it bottoms out on the body of the clutch disc and there is still wiggle room to spare.

On the diaphragm pressure plate, the widening taper of the snout fouls the collar just shy of going all the way through.

So there's a chance it might work but it seems risky -- seems equally good chance that the snout will rub on the collar when the clutch is fully depressed.

I can find no brand name or marking on this clutch disc other than a shield with the letters PC in it.

My goal for getting this engine back in is this coming Saturday so if I can get the proper non-interfering clutch disc in my hands this week I'll put it together with a new disc and the diaphragm pressure plate.

If not, I'll put it back together with the old disc and the 3-finger plate just to avoid the chance of having to pull it all apart again.

I was just browsing around the internet and it seems for those vendors who are selling Sachs 200mm clutch kits with the diaphragm-style pressure plate with center collar, they seem to be coming with a clutch disc made by Valeo (which apparently works with the centering collar). See below, you can see the Valeo name on the disc.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Bart- Look closely at the design of the diaphragm snout. It's beveled wider in the hole on the outside, which means it will fit further down on the snout inverted that it will right side up. Follow me?

This PP won't work with your disc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Bart- Look closely at the design of the diaphragm snout. It's beveled wider in the hole on the outside, which means it will fit further down on the snout inverted that it will right side up. Follow me?

This PP won't work with your disc.


Got it. Working a couple sources for the right clutch disc for this pressure plate. Thanks!

Sounds like if I use the clutch friction disc I have now with the diaphragm-style pressure plate, I'm gonna get this (stolen from another member's gallery):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

OK VW trivia/minutiae experts, it's Transmission Mount Trivia Time!

I received today my new OEM VW-logo rear transmission mounts. One side has the VW/Audi logo and part number (with extra 3 for some reason) molded in like so:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The other side has two molded-in rubber protrusions like so:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The question: Does it matter whether the rubber protrusions, when installed, face toward the front of the car or the rear of the car? And if so, what are they for?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

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Got the new transmission mounts installed. Turned out to be a bit more of a job than I expected. I thought I was going to be slick and just jack the rear of the transmission up juuuuust enough to swap the mounts out but no go. The top of the transmission hit the body before I had enough room.

Instead I had to remove the transmission carrier and tackle those 27mm bolts holding it to the frame horns. Had a tough time but they eventually came loose, thanks to Keith for putting everything together with anti-seize.

When I put the new mounts in I tried to take every precaution to avoid placing stress on the mounts or otherwise torquing the transmission in a weird way. Here's how I did it, check me if I fucked up:

1) Install mounts to transmission, torque to 14 ft lbs.

2) Re-install carrier, snug up the 27mm bolts but don't torque.

3) Install nuts/bolts from mounts to carrier, snug up but leave loose.

4) Lower car down onto the wheels, bounce and jounce suspension a few times.

5) Torque 27mm bolts to 166 ft lbs.

6) Torque the bolts holding mount to carrier to 14 ft lbs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

You should be good.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Anyone ever run across this before? I noticed when putting the engine back in that the top of the air cleaner has a crack in it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't know if it's always been there or if it somehow developed but I just don't know how that would have happened.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I dropped one on the ground and had something similar happen.

Coincidentally - I have a random spare top if you want to replace it.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

And one I acquired had the bottom (that is supposed to hold the oil) cracked.
Time and vibration I suppose.
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