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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
Anyone ever run across this before? I noticed when putting the engine back in that the top of the air cleaner has a crack in it.
I don't know if it's always been there or if it somehow developed but I just don't know how that would have happened. |
Only time I saw 1 cracked like that, was on a big motor using larger vents and jetting. The owner said it happened when he got up in the revs. It was his 2nd air cleaner to have that happen. Now he just uses a piece of black duct tape to cover the crack. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Thanks everybody. No idea how it got there or how long it has been there. I feel like it must be a recent development as I think I would have noticed it a long time ago otherwise.
Never dropped the air cleaner and definitely not running a bit motor. So I guess I'm leaning toward the "time and vibration" explanation.
I did take a look at the parts book and noticed that some of the hardware for securing the air cleaner to the engine was missing, specifically a couple washers on the center bracket. Going from the bracket up there is supposed to be a nut (which was there), then a flat washer, then the air cleaner tab, then another flat washer, then a wave washer, then the wing nut. My setup was missing all the washers. I have since corrected that - perhaps that was allowing too much movement leading to the crack.
At any rate, my favorite parts vendor, ataraxia, came through with a spare air cleaner top _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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I've had a chance to put some miles on the car after switching out the clutch disc and also switching the pressure plate from the original three-finger style to the more modern diaphragm style.
The old clutch disc was some kind of no-name brand. I had to replace it because the snout at the hub of the clutch disc fouled the ring on pressure plate for the throwout bearing.
The replacement clutch disc I ordered from aircooled.net wound up being an Exedy brand. Exedy is a Daikin brand and the disc was made in Japan. I was a little apprehensive about using a non-Sachs disc but a little searching showed Daikin to be well-regarded and of course they are an OEM for many manufacturers. I needn't have been concerned; the clutch disc operation is nice and smooth.
As far as the diaphragm-style pressure plate, it's made by Sachs in Brazil. As I was advised, it did indeed result in a lighter pedal effort. What I didn't expect is that it also offers a more abrupt clutch engagement point. Took a little driving to re-learn how to operate it smoothly. I'm hoping that will soften a bit as the diaphragm springs get some wear cycles on them.
I replaced the Brazilian INA throwout bearing that was in the car with new Sachs German one. I have not had any re-occurrence of the suspected throwout bearing noise or vibration that originally caused me to pull the engine.
Happy with the new clutch bits so far. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22728 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
I've had a chance to put some miles on the car after switching out the clutch disc and also switching the pressure plate from the original three-finger style to the more modern diaphragm style.
The old clutch disc was some kind of no-name brand. I had to replace it because the snout at the hub of the clutch disc fouled the ring on pressure plate for the throwout bearing.
The replacement clutch disc I ordered from aircooled.net wound up being an Exedy brand. Exedy is a Daikin brand and the disc was made in Japan. I was a little apprehensive about using a non-Sachs disc but a little searching showed Daikin to be well-regarded and of course they are an OEM for many manufacturers. I needn't have been concerned; the clutch disc operation is nice and smooth.
As far as the diaphragm-style pressure plate, it's made by Sachs in Brazil. As I was advised, it did indeed result in a lighter pedal effort. What I didn't expect is that it also offers a more abrupt clutch engagement point. Took a little driving to re-learn how to operate it smoothly. I'm hoping that will soften a bit as the diaphragm springs get some wear cycles on them.
I replaced the Brazilian INA throwout bearing that was in the car with new Sachs German one. I have not had any re-occurrence of the suspected throwout bearing noise or vibration that originally caused me to pull the engine.
Happy with the new clutch bits so far. |
Add a shim at the transmission end of the Bowden tube to increase sag a bit- this will help a lot. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Tram wrote: |
Add a shim at the transmission end of the Bowden tube to increase sag a bit- this will help a lot. |
Ooh interesting! I will try that out, thanks! _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Today I had time to try and implement Tram's suggestion to add a washer to the Bowden tube to help with clutch engagement. Got me some M12 washers and was all ready to go until:
The end of the Bowden tube has become one with the bracket in the transmission case due to corrosion. I tried twisting it loose with some big channel locks, but no go.
Any ideas on how to break that guy loose? Lots of penetrating oil and some heat? And yes I also realize that the rubber boot is missing there too. Adding to the list for my next parts order.
Is the Bowden tube bracket part of the case casting or is it a bolt-on? I can't quite tell just by casually eyeballing it. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
Today I had time to try and implement Tram's suggestion to add a washer to the Bowden tube to help with clutch engagement. Got me some M12 washers and was all ready to go until:
The end of the Bowden tube has become one with the bracket in the transmission case due to corrosion. I tried twisting it loose with some big channel locks, but no go.
Any ideas on how to break that guy loose? Lots of penetrating oil and some heat? And yes I also realize that the rubber boot is missing there too. Adding to the list for my next parts order.
Is the Bowden tube bracket part of the case casting or is it a bolt-on? I can't quite tell just by casually eyeballing it. |
The bowden tube bracket is part of the side cover, which, technically, does bolt on but not worth removing unless you break it.
I'd spray the connection with Fluid Film, pull the clutch cable out of the bowden tube and then pull down on it to free it from the bracket (harder to do with the cable in the bowden tube). Fluid Film works best if it's had about 30 minutes to get in and do its thing. |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13281 Location: Tejas!
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Hey guys, I need some advice on a couple things from the experts who have dealt with these things before, especially all you guys who've built cars and installed carpet.
So my '65 has the original rubber mat on the floor. Problem is, it's falling apart. And every time I have to remove it it falls apart a little bit more. It's gotten quite brittle with age and since I understand these rubber mats are made of unobtanium, I'd like to replace it with a nice carpet. The car has a carpet trim kit in it now (rocker sills, front bulkhead panel, etc.) but it's kind of chintzy - glued on heater outlet "binding", etc. I found the receipt for the kit in the car folder, it's a Sewfine 407 loop 5-piece carpet kit. Cost $135 in 2012.
If I'm gonna replace the OG rubber mat I want to do it right with a nice square weave carpet kit. So which vendors should I be looking to contact to figure out a nice kit for a Squareback? One vendor that has been recommended to me is West Coast Classic Restorations (http://www.classicvws.com/sqint.htm) but I'd certainly like to hear of others I should consider.
Additionally the (presumably) original material backing the rear seat has also started to come apart rather dramatically:
I don't know if this was originally the same rubber material as the floor mat but it feels very brittle now, like plastic. I supposed replacing this will be part of the carpet kit.
The second thing I want to address is an annoying whistling noise that I've tracked down to the passenger side vent window. The top corner of the vent window does not lay against the seal on the passenger side, leaving a small air gap that creates an incredibly annoying whistling noise at speed. I can't tell if it's because the seal itself is bad/flat (and it certainly isn't in good shape) or if the vent window frame is bent slightly (or both). See photos:
You can see that the seal is not in great shape but also it appears that the top corner of the window sits a little proud of where it should sit.
I can push it in a little bit. See video. By contrast, when the left side vent window is closed and latched, it lays on the seal and I can't push in on it. Bad seal or bent frame?
Link
My main question is: is that seal easily replaceable without removing the vent window from the car? If I'm honest the vent window seals and felt channels and window scrapers could all stand to be replaced but for a quick fix I would give just that seal pictured above a shot if it can be done without pulling the door apart.
Any thoughts on the quality of vent window seals / window scrapers / felt channels / etc. from WCM or other vendors?
Advice from those who have been in there before is greatly appreciated! _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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The rubber floor mats get more and more brittle with age as they dry out. Mine is about done - it's super stiff in some areas and crumbling in others. Par for the course.
As far as carpet goes - Mario Steinhauser has carpet in the works - he's maybe got a set with vinyl binding left - but last we chatted, he was working on getting them with yarn binding. They have the correct heater outlets for early cars and the carpet fits properly. I've seen other pics of the carpet kits installed.
Lenny's stuff (West Coast Classic) is good but they're VERY expensive and VERY slow. He'd recently posted on Facebook that they're several months out on new orders and I've personally had conversations with people who've waited near a year for their orders (not Type 3 carpet).
The rear seat backing - I've been looking for an original but it seems that they're simply not out there unless it's already in another car.
The vent window situation - it looks like your frame or vent window are bent - it should line up at the top. Could also be the riveted pivot that's bent causing the alignment issue. I've not rebuilt only one part of the vent window - I've done the whole thing at one time. The part on the divider is its own piece, however...
I would not remove the felt from the vertical divider (between the window and the vent window) because a suitable replacement piece is very hard to find. There's a Brazilian repop available that I used to replace mine because they were thrashed and now the windows are worse. I'm waiting for Wolfsburg West to get their Beetle version back in stock before I dig into my doors again. They get one or two shipments per year according to the guy I spoke with at WW and it sells out very fast. They've been out of stock for over six months.
The repop outer scrapers are garbage and will require a lot of 'tweaking' to get them to fit correctly. In addition to the outer trim not fitting properly, the profile for the scraper itself is wrong. You will be better off using your originals and riveting new scrapers from a T2 with some trimming. |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Oooh Mario's carpet kit is pretty. I will chat with him.
With regard to the vent window, I would assume that if something's bent it has to be the frame, or as you said, the pivot, rather than the glass itself?
EDIT: just had a thought, could it be that the upright at the rear of the vent window is bent? Is there any adjustment in or out at the top if you loosen those two screws? _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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ibjack Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002 Posts: 2106 Location: Imperial Beach CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Only because I'm me. I would remove the pieces off the back of the rear seat coat it and glue them back down. If you have rubber parts that are getting brittle, Notchboy swears by coating them in Vaseline to soften them up, Silence of the Lambs style. _________________ '68 Lotus White T34 automatic sunroof
'64 Manila Yellow T34
'65 Sea Blue Square Panel
the1500club.com
Shop Lacky at the T3/34 Factory, https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094313902074 |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:39 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
Oooh Mario's carpet kit is pretty. I will chat with him.
With regard to the vent window, I would assume that if something's bent it has to be the frame, or as you said, the pivot, rather than the glass itself?
EDIT: just had a thought, could it be that the upright at the rear of the vent window is bent? Is there any adjustment in or out at the top if you loosen those two screws? |
Most likely the pivot is bent or the divider piece is bent.
If you want to buy just the rear seal for the vent window (#92 in the above diagram), it's PN 241 837 465
They're about $10 for the pair - a part used on multiple platforms so it's easy to find. |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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I have noticed that the parts book lists a different part for early cars through 1965, and my chassis number falls into that range.
That part number is 311 837 465.
Then for 1966 models the p/n switches to 241 837 465.
Does anyone know what the difference was? I did some searching and recall reading a post from someone else with a '65 saying that the 241 vent window seal was about 1/8" too wide for the channel. Anybody used that 241 seal on an early car?
Wolfsburg West apparently makes their own repro of that part and West Coast Metric also apparently makes their own repro. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
I have noticed that the parts book lists a different part for early cars through 1965, and my chassis number falls into that range.
That part number is 311 837 465.
Then for 1966 models the p/n switches to 241 837 465.
Does anyone know what the difference was? I did some searching and recall reading a post from someone else with a '65 saying that the 241 vent window seal was about 1/8" too wide for the channel. Anybody used that 241 seal on an early car?
Wolfsburg West apparently makes their own repro of that part and West Coast Metric also apparently makes their own repro. |
Ah, shit...I need to stop 'multi-tasking'...Yep - you're correct...the earlier part number applies to your car. The divider bar changed width in 66 - which changed the rubber seal and the previously mentioned vertical felt strip. I've not tried to use the later part on an earlier frame piece but I'd hazard a guess that the later part probably won't fit due to the width. The felt bit certainly doesn't fit in the earlier frame. |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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ataraxia wrote: |
Ah, shit...I need to stop 'multi-tasking'...Yep - you're correct...the earlier part number applies to your car. The divider bar changed width in 66 - which changed the rubber seal and the previously mentioned vertical felt strip. I've not tried to use the later part on an earlier frame piece but I'd hazard a guess that the later part probably won't fit due to the width. The felt bit certainly doesn't fit in the earlier frame. |
OK cool, good to know. Hard time finding anything on the Type 3 part number but ISP West has it listed as "flap seal - early" with a Type 1 part number 111 837 629. Apparently it also fits Beetles '52-'64. WW has a repro too, as does WCM.
Any thoughts on which vendor is likely to have the best rubber? I unfortunately have not been too happy with how well the known ISP West rubber on my car has held up.
In the meantime I will take a closer look at the vent window and pivot to see if I can see where the misalignment is coming from. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650
Last edited by sjbartnik on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
ataraxia wrote: |
Ah, shit...I need to stop 'multi-tasking'...Yep - you're correct...the earlier part number applies to your car. The divider bar changed width in 66 - which changed the rubber seal and the previously mentioned vertical felt strip. I've not tried to use the later part on an earlier frame piece but I'd hazard a guess that the later part probably won't fit due to the width. The felt bit certainly doesn't fit in the earlier frame. |
OK cool, good to know. Hard time finding anything on the Type 3 part number but ISP West has it listed as "flap seal - early" with a Type 1 part number 111 837 629. Apparently it also fits Beetles '52-'64. WW has a repro too, as does WCM.
Any thoughts on which vendor is likely to have the best rubber? I unfortunately have not been too happy with how well the known ISP West rubber on my car has held up. |
I'd go with WW parts - I haven't had to throw any of them in the trash. |
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Nikon-User Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2017 Posts: 33 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:03 am Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
Oooh Mario's carpet kit is pretty. I will chat with him..... |
The quality is really good. He sent me an example and I really liked it. But finally my carpet where made by a locat upholstery nearby the office.
Due the additional cables for the sound system and the massive noise isolation, no carpets from stock were fitting....
I will meet him 1st. of May in Hannover and try to discuss about a few topics |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5998 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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OK back to vent window seals. So I obtained the Wolfsburg West vent window flap seal 111 837 629 which is supposed to be for Beetles '52 to '64 and supposedly also for the early Type 3 up through '65 until they changed the vent window for '66.
So the seal I currently have looks like this, kind of an L-shape:
The WW seal has a more complex profile:
Does anyone have any insight as to how this seal should be oriented upon installation? It doesn't immediately strike me as obvious how it should go. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) |
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Here's a mounted original seal for comparison:
The original profile is more of a bulb shape (hollow in the middle) that the glass edge presses against to create a seal - like this:
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