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New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!)
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
CW 69mm crank? Some sexy shit right there.


this engine gonna be smooooooooth
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Yeah baby. I did that with the engine I built for my 71 Notch, and it was nice and smooth. Cool Well worth doing, and spending extra for. Wink
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I am switching to a cross-drilled crank instead of re-using the original because:

1) I can use commonly available main bearings with external oil groove rather than try to hunt down NOS main bearings with internal oil groove, which leads to...

2) Better oiling for the rod bearings.

3) I can use the commonly available end play shims rather than the NLA 40hp ones.

4) The mods are all internal and will not affect the original appearance unless one pulls the engine and counts dowels on the flywheel.

This did necessitate a change of flywheel to the 6V o-ring version but luckily Jose @ DPR was able to hook me up with one. I sent him my pressure plate and he match balanced everything together.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Sweet. You just covered all of the questions I was going to ask too. Are you going to step up to a 1600 with flat tops? No case machining needed. Wink
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
Sweet. You just covered all of the questions I was going to ask too. Are you going to step up to a 1600 with flat tops? No case machining needed. Wink


No because I just can't can't can't resist building it back as a 1500 using the original dome-top pistons.

They came with the car and they checked out great. Got some NOS Goetze rings for them.

If down the road this turns out to be a horrible idea then my plan B will be to make it a 1600.
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:
Sweet. You just covered all of the questions I was going to ask too. Are you going to step up to a 1600 with flat tops? No case machining needed. Wink


No because I just can't can't can't resist building it back as a 1500 using the original dome-top pistons.

They came with the car and they checked out great. Got some NOS Goetze rings for them.

If down the road this turns out to be a horrible idea then my plan B will be to make it a 1600.



Atta boy, good answer Cool Applause Applause
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t3kg wrote:

OK, this thread is over. You win.

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1964 T34 S Convertible
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:



Atta boy, good answer Cool Applause Applause


notchboy, you got any insight onto the volume of the domed area of the piston? I did some searching here and somebody had come up with about 5cc.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
notchboy wrote:



Atta boy, good answer Cool Applause Applause


notchboy, you got any insight onto the volume of the domed area of the piston? I did some searching here and somebody had come up with about 5cc.



No, nada. Sorry.
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OK, this thread is over. You win.

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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I guess I'll get some modeling clay or something and use that to make a mold and measure.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
I guess I'll get some modeling clay or something and use that to make a mold and measure.


Sounds like the best plan of action.
I don't blame you for wanting to run the dome pistons either. You might want to talk to Glen about one of his distributors to go with your combination. Wink
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

I already have the original vacuum-advance-only distributor for this car and it’s in great shape. But if/when it needs attention it will definitely go to Glenn.

In other news, I’m getting pretty close to the assembly stage. One thing I noted when I took it apart is that there were no main bearing stud seals in the case.

It didn’t leak but I’m intending on installing those seals when the time comes. Did all engines have main bearing stud seals? Just want to make sure it’s not some weird early 1500 thing where they didn’t have them.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
I already have the original vacuum-advance-only distributor for this car and it’s in great shape. But if/when it needs attention it will definitely go to Glenn.

In other news, I’m getting pretty close to the assembly stage. One thing I noted when I took it apart is that there were no main bearing stud seals in the case.

It didn’t leak but I’m intending on installing those seals when the time comes. Did all engines have main bearing stud seals? Just want to make sure it’s not some weird early 1500 thing where they didn’t have them.


If you're meaning inside the case, no, it's an early thing. If you're meaning under the washers and nuts on the outside, no, no seals there either, but later on VW used those funky sealing nuts with plastic injected to 1 end of them.

As for distributors, I really like having my SVDA in my 65 Notch with a stock 1600 and dual Solex carbs. But then, I also used an 009 for many years too, without any issues.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:


If you're meaning inside the case, no, it's an early thing. If you're meaning under the washers and nuts on the outside, no, no seals there either, but later on VW used those funky sealing nuts with plastic injected to 1 end of them.



Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant the seals that go on the main bearing studs at the case centerline on the inside. As in this photo:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like there is space there for a seal but no seals were installed when I pulled it apart.

So are you saying there should *not* be a seal there?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:


If you're meaning inside the case, no, it's an early thing. If you're meaning under the washers and nuts on the outside, no, no seals there either, but later on VW used those funky sealing nuts with plastic injected to 1 end of them.



Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant the seals that go on the main bearing studs at the case centerline on the inside. As in this photo:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like there is space there for a seal but no seals were installed when I pulled it apart.

So are you saying there should *not* be a seal there?


No seals there. What you have is normal for early cases.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Awesome, thanks. The Wilson book isn’t quite clear about which cases take the seals.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Awesome, thanks. The Wilson book isn’t quite clear about which cases take the seals.


If it took seals there, there would be a bevel on each side of the case there. The bevel is for the "O" rings to sit.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Good call. I was able to find a photo from maboyce's build thread on a later case which clearly shows the bevels for the seals:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My case definitely ain't got those.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Oil strainer minutiæ.

This is just kinda the fun weird shit that you sometimes get into going down rabbit holes when trying to make sure you have all the right parts.

I have seen a couple kinds of oil screens out there. The one that was in my car when I tore it down was the shittier style of the two, where they just cut a hole in the mesh for the oil pick up tube and call it a day, like this one:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This does not seem to be ideal as it seems like fairly good size chonks can get through the gap between the pickup tube and mesh.

I noticed that bughaus sells what appears to be a better-built version that has a ring built into the center for the pickup tube:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


So a while ago I bought one.

Then I never put it in because I stumbled across this page in the Bentley:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I had not realized that there were two different oil pickup tube diameters on the 1500 and I definitely did not want to fit the wrong one. I kinda forgot about it for a while but now that I'm building this thing I want to make sure I get the right one.

I measured my oil pickup tube just to make sure everything was stock and sure enough it's 14mm like it should be.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I dug out the strainer I bought from bughaus and it's very nice:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It feels like it's good quality; the base plate is substantial. On the cheap one it feels like you can bend it very easily. This one feels pretty solid. I measured the center hole for the oil pickup tube and it also comes out to 14mm. Whew!

But bughaus lists that strainer for all Type 3 1500 engines from '62 to '69, but as Bentley shows it's not correct for the single-carb 1500 with 12mm oil pickup and would allow oil to bypass the screen getting sucked into the pickup tube.

Just another weird thing to be aware of I guess. Laughing
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Last edited by sjbartnik on Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Yeah, I've ran it it before once. Those slots on the BugHaus one is the one you want (Russ explained it to me that way). It might be a "one size fits all" thing, since it'll fit the later model engines (be a tight fit on the suction tube) too. It does look like a much better part than the CIP one.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:08 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Last night in preparation for assembly I spent a little time measuring the main bearing journals and the inner diameter of the Silverline main bearings that I’ll be using. Jose at DPR did a great job on the crank, all the main bearing journals are .010” under the original spec value.

I used snap gauges to measure the ID of the bearings (except #2) and they also all seem to be dimensionally consistent with each other. I measured a .003” oil clearance in this way for each bearing. However, to get a more accurate measurement, I next plan to place the bearings into the case and torque the case to spec, then measure the ID again.

In reading Wilson I could find no specified main bearing oil clearance numbers. He has a section about rod bearing clearances but nothing about the mains. Wilson states that the rod bearing oil clearances should ideally be .002” - .0025” even though the allowable spec is a larger range than that. Does that advice hold true for the main bearings as well?

I could find no oil clearance spec for the main bearings in Bentley either.
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