New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!)

[Mike Fisher]

You should use Plastgauge if you're torquing it all down temporarily for reassurance it's all 'good to go'.
https://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[sjbartnik]

I intend to Plastigauge the rod bearings but I don’t really see how I can Plastigauge the non-split main bearings.

And of course I haven’t seen a spec for main bearing oil clearance anyway. Is it generally considered that the “ideal” rod bearing clearance of .002” - .0025” is good for main bearings as well? I have seen some chatter in the engine forum to suggest that the mains should be maybe more like .003”

EDIT: just remembered the existence of the “Without Guesswork” books. I looked up in there the oil clearance spec of the main bearings as:

#1-3: .0016” - .004”
#4: .002” - .004”

So I should be good pending measurement with the case torqued. The book does specify that those values are with the case torqued.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

Some quality Friday night time in the "workshop." Installed the mains into the case and torqued it up to spec.

Measured the ID of all the main bearings and it's looking like I'm in the .002" - .0025" oil clearance range with the case all torqued up so that should be perfect.

While I had the case together I also measured the ID of the camshaft bores (no cam bearings in this case) versus the OD of the new camshaft. The cam bores are in spec (according to the values in the Without Guesswork book) and my oil clearance there is also within the VW spec of .02mm to .05mm.

The main bearings fit the case really well and that thrust bearing is super snug. I love it!

To cc the dome area of my pistons, I made a mold with some modeling clay:

I then used my cc kit to measure the volume and it comes out right about 5cc.

This 5cc will be deducted from my measurement of the combustion chamber volume to ensure the correct setting of compression ratio.

Next up, gotta check out those rod bearing oil clearances.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

OK so. This is probably a little stupid but, I got 3 different sets of rod bearings because I had read about some brands being tighter than others etc.

Rod bearings are cheap so not a big deal to buy a couple sets to see what gets me the best oil clearance.

So I measured all the rod journals on the crank and I have to say, Jose @ DPR is a fucking Jedi, everything is spot on 2.155".

So I get out the rods and the bearings to play. I have:

Brand new (not NOS) Kolbenschmidt, made in Germany(!)

Brand new (not NOS) Mahle, made in Brazil.

NOS Glyco, made in Germany.

I mocked 'em all up and was surprised to see that every single set gave me .0015" oil clearance. This is determined by measuring the installed ID of the bearings with a dial bore gauge on torqued rods and subtracting the OD of the journals on the crank.

So if they're all gonna give me the same clearance, which ones do I use? Mahle Brazilian goes to the bottom of my list so do I go with NOS Glyco or new Kolbenschmidt?

EDIT: for posterity's sake:

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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[notchboy]

1500 S - Id use the Kolbenschmidt

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[sjbartnik]

So check this out. Getting stuff together to begin laying in the crankshaft and distributor drive gear.

My engine has the old style distributor drive shaft that has a thick spacer rather than two shims. It seems to have some weird wear on it, check out these pics:

There is a bright wear ring where the fuel pump push rod rides on the shaft:

There are bright wear spots on the teeth that are in contact with the brass drive gear which seems weird to me given that the brass gear is so much softer than the shaft:

The underside of those teeth and the corresponding part of the spacer are both worn to a highly polished finish:

This drive shaft supposedly only has about 60,000 miles on it over the course of its life.

I'm contrasting this with a later-style distributor drive shaft of unknown mileage that DPR sent me which has none of these visible wear indicators.

Does it seem weird that my distributor drive shaft is showing so much wear? It almost seems like it's a result of something (or several things) being set up too tight on assembly.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

Yes it does. I'm wondering if it's related to your crankshaft gear issues (wear on the cam gear).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[sjbartnik]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. Something just too tight in there. Maybe the crank - cam gear interface.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

Got the crankshaft built up today.

For me the most nerve-wracking part is installing the timing gear & distributor drive gear. I always envision not being fast enough and the gear grabbing the crankshaft when it's only halfway installed. No issues here though, that sucker slid right on after its hot vegetable oil bath.

Tomorrow I hope to be mocking up crankshaft & camshaft in the case and checking backlash, end play, etc. etc.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

Looks good.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[sjbartnik]

So uhhhh...this is the original distributor drive pinion with the original thick spacer washer...


Link


just a *little* bit more than .050" end play. Measures out about .067"

I looked in Bentley to see if they gave an end play spec for the early style drive pinion but I didn't see anything listed for either.

I also don't see anything about it in Without Guesswork. The only source I have for that 020" - .050" spec is the Wilson book.

I just mic'd the thick spacer at 6.23mm / .245" which I think is about where it's supposed to be.

Gonna try the later style drive I have with two thin shims. Maybe the seat in the case got worn down a bit - I would guess that's the softest part of this whole arrangement.

Measured it with the later style drive pinion and two shims and it comes out slightly better at .063" / 1.27mm, but still out of spec.

Is there any reason I couldn't use the original drive pinion with the thick spacer + one of the thin shims? That would bring me to a free play of 1.1mm which would be in spec and on the looser side.

The other option would be to obtain one more thin shim for the later style drive pinion and that would bring me to 1mm free play which is also in spec.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

So I've elected to use the later drive pinion because it's in better shape and to source a couple extra shims to get the end play in spec. There may be a good reason why it would be a bad idea to mix the thick spacer with the thin shim and I'm not trying to go experimental here.

Got the camshaft mocked up and checked for backlash:


Link


Seems maybe a bit much so I half-installed the oil pump cover and used it as a base for my magnetic dial indicator and measured backlash directly:

It's on the looser side of .003" backlash which is out of spec (spec is zero to .002"). This camshaft has a +3 gear. So the good news is it's not too tight, but the bad news is it's a bit too loose.

So I'm gonna pick up a new camshaft with a zero gear, that should get me right where I need to be, fingers crossed.

While I'm waiting for that to arrive, I can be working on my oil pump.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

Before:

After:

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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

I did mock up the case with only the crankshaft installed just to make sure all was well. With case fully torqued (well, main bearing studs anyway) the crankshaft spun nice and smooth with minimal effort and no tight spots.


Link

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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

Fun stuff...while waiting for a new camshaft, I decided to slap in the old one that I took out during teardown just to measure the backlash because I had neglected to do it on teardown.

It was all over the place owing to the uneven wear on the teeth, some spots at .004", some at .007", but this one was the kicker:


Link


.017"

Might explain why the engine sounded a little slappy.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

So I've been making progress and I'm getting to the point now where I'm looking at deck height.

I ran into something weird and I think I know the answer but I need to hear it from someone else.

So I know you're supposed to measure deck height at the center of the piston because without rings the piston can rock in the bore and throw off your measurements.

I'm using domed pistons so I can't measure in the center of the piston. So I'm measuring on each side of the piston along the axis of the wrist pin. So if you were looking dead on at the top of the piston, I'd be measuring at 3:00 and 9:00.

On the #1 and #3 cylinders, I get .034" on the side of the piston closest to the center of the case but .041" on the side of the piston toward the flywheel.

There is a similar effect on #2 and #4 but not as wide a spread, and again with the lower number being toward the center of the case.

I have measured out the pistons and rods and cylinders and swapped them all around but no change.

I suspect then that the issue lies with the cylinder seats in the case - I have seen mention of collapse of this area that happens over time. I suspect I need to bring the case back to the machinist to have it decked.

Am I wrong or am I right?
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

Yes. Some good machinists will lightly skim off some material after installing case savers to ensure everything is flush there. What you may be seeing is the differences in how flat that area is, if it didn't get skimmed prior to your build (it kind of looks like they didn't in your above mock up pick).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[sjbartnik]

The case was apparently decked by Rimco when they did the case savers (this was old Rimco, not current FAT/Rimco), at least that's what I can make out from the invoice.

It definitely seems like that area of the case is not flat now though. Maybe they did a not-so-great job back then or maybe the case has worn since then.

I spoke to the machinist today and he's happy to take care of it so I'll take the case in on Monday.

After that though I think I'm about ready for final assembly.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

[sjbartnik]