head gaskets means new heads?

chachi · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:26 pm Post subject: head gaskets means new heads?

got the report i was expecting today, head gasket seepage on one side. mechanic, who has always done me right, says you need to replace the heads as well as they become pitted, making the sealing surface unsealable. is this the general consensus? it turns a $1500 repair into a $3100 repair, at least at this guy's shop.
_________________
'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

Corwyn · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject:

Might as well. They're not too expensive and new one just FEEL good! Smile

_________________
'90 White Westy ("Knarr")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604813&highlight=baja

"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~

Sir Sam · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject:

Corwyn · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject:

danfromsyr · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject:

the head surface that the small green o-ring seals on the side of the cylinder wall to the head cannot tolerate any imperfections. the small diam of the green o-ring requires a perfect surface...

makes the heads junk, unless you are handy with both a TIG and a flycutter milling machine/lathe

$3k+ air cooled and WBX rebuilds, a reason I've taken an alternate engine path. but that's another topic discussion.
_________________

tpinthepack · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject:

When I did my heads recently, I replaced Rings, and Water Pump, and Thermostat Housing and the Rear Main Seal and a few more things that I don't recall. But I paid 1600 just for parts and did all the work myself. It sure does look nice with shiny new heads. The heads were only about 450.00 each, so the gaskets and other stuff just adds up. 3100 does not sound like a lot. I spent nearly 1 entire day on the Engine assembly, and another full 10 hour day putting it in and tuning, bleeding, etc.
Just my angle on this.

Tony
_________________
TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne

Sir Sam · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject:

hdenter · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject:

Well... The labor and related materials are the same for a re-seal regardless which heads are used. In my book, $1500 is a little steep for a new set of heads. GoWesty sells a reworked set of new AMC heads for $1000. Van-Café sells rebuilt heads for $800 a pair. For that much more there could almost be some 2.2 pistons in there. JMHO...

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

Dana Champion · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject:

My '88 had a leaking head for sometime. Very slow leak. Of course it got worse. My reputable mechanic, swapped it out with a good used head. Price was very reasonable, under four bills.
That was about five years ago. All good at this point. If the one head is not leaking, and you're not in a position to do both, you might be ok just doing one. Mine was the passenger side (US). If yours is the other side, you may want to change out the water pump, while you're there. I had app. 140k miles when mine was replaced.

Otherwise do both, and change the water pump. Peace of mind comes at a price. You might want to change out some hoses since you're there. New radiator ? Laughing

candyman · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: head gaskets means new heads?

16CVs · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:04 pm Post subject:

I was able to get 5 years out of a set of pitted heads, I filled the pits with a JB equivalent and then did a normal assembly with new upper and lower seals and rings.
After doing mine ,most people who have done the same thing say that you should not use the filler as it just introduces an non compatible compound and that your best bet is to clean out the pits with a Dremel tool and a balled and and put it back together.
Most shops will not do this because they do not want the possible warranty,but if it was running fine besides the head leak and money is tight then put it back together and go on with your life.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

Or have the pits welded up , and the mating surfaces milled--
If the heads are still in decent shape--no cracks.

And as long as you have them off, might as well do the valves & guides be done with it all.
_________________
T.K.

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336

How many miles are on the engine? If the mileage is getting up there, say 140K miles then you aren't very far from a rebuild. If so it would be a waste to just redo the heads and it would make more sense to go ahead with a full rebuild.

Mellow Yellow 74 · Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:01 am Post subject: Re: head gaskets means new heads?

djkeev · Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:29 am Post subject:

Using or not using the original heads becomes a Personal choice up to a point.
Read up and educate yourself about the various view points.

Bad cracks by the Valves will make this decision for you, it now becomes a I must replace statement rather than a should I replace question.

Surface pits, some say fix em with JB weld, some say weld and mill, some say clean and use.
The cylinder seal into the head is critical, pitting here will cause a combustion chamber leak.

When you are paying labor, I'd be surprised if your shop installs your pitted heads with ANY out the door warranty.

Used parts, especially used damaged parts offer no peace of mind about their ability to serve you long term. Very few shops will stand behind this repair.

The rebuilt heads from Bus Depot? I bought some..... They were so bad that I returned them! Very poor milling quality, sloppy the workmanship varied from head to head.

For the few extra hundred dollars, go with the new AMC heads on the market.

Now, just to muddy your waters..........

Do read up on their provided Exhaust valves though. You will need to decide to run them or replace them.
Will you buy the Heads with the valves already replaced?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583560&highlight=heads

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

morymob · Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:46 am Post subject:

Do your research, as u already see opinions here run from one extreme to other end. I f reasonable minor pitting they will run indefinitely. My 2nd one over 330 k/ 12+yrs after a brng,ring etc to start, one even had the 'Bently ok crack in it, had a lot of hwy miles too. If it still in cond to get eng normally warmed up i would do a hot oil press test, see if bottom needs attention (brngs etc) if over 100k never hsd one apart that still had good brngs. If a long time keeper, big decision time. Get more than one opinion, search some local owners 4 a dependable shop, u can easily get a good screwing on these engines from a quick buck shop.

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336

If it isn't leaking all that bad, add some Subaru Coolant Conditioner to the coolant and keep on driving.

chachi · Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:05 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336

The head gaskets on my '91 started leaking when I had about 120K miles on them and I used stop leak for many miles until I took the engine out of service at around 180K because the rod bolts were stretching. All the naysayers claim these rigs will die a quick death if you use stop leak, but it worked for me and now over a decade and a hundred thousand plus miles later, I still run the same radiator and front heater core in this rig.

Terry Kay · Banned Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331

And in life, there are folks who manage to get away with running with bailing wire, duct tape, & latex house paint jobs.

Is it right?

Depends on what neighborhood you live in I guess.

How many guys from Warsaw does it take to put a light bulb in?

10.
One to hold the light bulb, 9 to turn the ladder.

Who stole the Keeshka?
_________________
T.K.


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> Vanagon	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2