In Dash AC - Air Conditioning Kit Options

AKWesty

The discussion around the Westy these days is a possible in dash AC. I have been reading threads and most of them are owners that have fabricated their own in dash systems. I have looked into the Small Car kit and it is an option.

If a Vanagon owner is interested in buying a kit and installing into their van or having someone install it for them.....what are the options? No fabricate your own here. I would like to put a thread together on kits that can be purchased and actual costs associated.

Help me out....Do I have any other options?
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir

AKWesty · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject:

Along with the Small Car in dash AC kit we are looking into this system by Vintage Air.

http://www.vintageair.com/

https://sites.google.com/site/blakeheinlein2/vanagon-airconditioning
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir

'88MoneyPit · Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 11:50 pm Post subject:

The small car kit uses the vintage air parts. Small car includes custom parts for installation in a vanagon.

Stephen

djkeev · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 2:15 am Post subject:

Possibly your best solution is a Behr Front AC system sourced used.......

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1732329

They work quite well and can be hooked into the rear system giving you more than adequate cooling.

Dave
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insyncro · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:55 am Post subject:

I have installed the Vintage Air system purchased from Small Car.
Many parts are custom for the Vanagon and not available from Vintage Air.
You can make these parts yourself, but SC has done all the hard work for you.
The installation is not for those with zero knowledge of A/C and heat systems, plus you need a lot of patience for it all to fit properly.

The brand new system with RedTek will out perform any old used system, my opinion.

If building and installing yourself, plan for $2500-$3000.
Add in many labor hours at whatever rate you pay if having someone install it for you.

I should have templates for stock, Subaru and Ford Zetec A/C lines soon and will make them up for those interested in a more plug and play kit.
The layout for converted engine vans is different that the stock WBX layout when using the front system from VA.

AKWesty · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 7:52 am Post subject:

Thanks for the responses. So it sounds like there are 3 options out there. Small Car, Vintage Air, and Behr.

It sounds like the most complete kit is from Small Car.

For the owner that doesn't want to take on this project, is there an installer out there that is recommended for an in dash AC system?
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir

insyncro · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:04 am Post subject:

You are closest to Small Car.

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 9:50 am Post subject:

So last week I talked to Brian at Small Car about their in dash kit. They have been out of stock and are getting the new kits in stock now. I believe I will buy one of the kits and install it myself.

I expect I will start a thread on the installation as I have not found a build thread on the small car kit. If there is one out there, please direct me to it as I would appreciate as much information as possible.

I am comfortable with all the behind the dash work. I am nervous about the lines. I plan to buy a crimp tool as necessary for the lines but have not fabricated my own lines before. I guess there is a first time for everything.

The previous owner removed the rear AC system and during the engine swap I tied up the abandoned AC lines in the engine bay. I have to buy a compressor for the EJ22 so that is in the budget.

I live in remote AK. We are on the road system but it would be very expensive to ship my van south or drive it to an ac shop for them to complete the line work.

Can you guys that have done your own installs direct me to tools necessary to purchase. I am sure I could search and find but I would like to learn from some others experiences and mistakes. The threads here on indash AC have some years on them and I would like to get the up to date info from you guys. What are the AC specific tools that I will need and you feel are the best value out there for a do it yourself'r.
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 9:54 am Post subject:

BTW .....Small Car quoted $1300 for the kit and additional $3000 if they do the install. Numbers for others contemplating this.
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 9:57 am Post subject:

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:03 am Post subject:

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:16 am Post subject:

I swiped this diagram from the web for discussion.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This is copied from the small car site:

Included in this kit
Plenum unit with fan, evaporator and heater core
Variable controls for air temp, fan speed and air direction
Wiring with electronic control unit and relays
New powder coated dash face
Three control knobs and custom faceplate
Electric heater valve
Two additional louvered vents for dash (similar to the OEM vents)
Hose for heater core, heat and dash vents and defrost
Adapters for defrost vents
Cover for original air intake and bracket for plenum mounting
Extension for radio antenna

Parts not supplied
Compressor and condensor
Hoses for A/C
Wire and connectors for extending wiring to stereo
Wiring and connectors to accessory power outlets

So to me it looks like the kit provides everything behind the dash.

I am not sure about the expansion valve or the drier. Not sure if they are currently on the van or not. If they are in the lines between the engine bay and condenser then I should have them. If not then I will need them. I'm a newb with an education ahead of me. Brick wall

]
_________________
84' Westy 2wd
EJ22 - 4spd - Peloquin TBD
GW +1.5 Springs
215/70-16's

www.CatchTheKraken.com

"Never go to Alaska as a young man because you'll never be satisfied with any other place as long as you live." -John Muir

insyncro · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:48 am Post subject:

Expansion valve is connected to the unit and part of the kit.

Lines depend upon which condenser you choose, dryer location and various other factors.

Be prepared to cut your dash apart...I mean it, if you want it all to fit and have the dash be able to be removed by any mechanic...you will need to remove multiple areas from the dash and cut the face up for vents.
No turning back once you are vested.
A word of advice.....plan a removal procedure and think about it while placing everything...than write it all down...add pictures and put a copy in the glove box Wink

I do not recommend "fishing" anything around the unit after it is installed...like speaker wires and such.
The controls are exposed behind the knobs and could easily be messed up.

I have posted a few helpful pics in Kyle's build thread and many more on Facebook.
Not a how too by any means, but I have added a stereo, USB charging port and an additional SeaLink cig lighter too.

The glove box fits perfectly if you have the unit placed exactly.
Trial and error before anything permanent is done will help a lot with running the lines, hoses and ducting as well.

I will be experimenting with an addition to allow for fresh air to some of the vents and a cabin filter for the recirculated air.

Overall a good kit with quality parts.
The sky is the limit on making it even better.

Howesight · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:57 am Post subject:

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:02 am Post subject:

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:10 am Post subject:

kourt · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:27 am Post subject:

In case you have not seen it, there is a big thread on the Small Car kit already:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=591615&highlight=smallcar+dash

Please post your installation log on that thread.

I just finished mine... with RedTek. It's 85 and sunny here in Texas (when it's not flooding) and my kit works very well. Wife is pleased.

Everything insyncro says is true--plan for money and time and expertise to do this kit right... but it's worth it.

kourt

AKWesty · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:34 am Post subject:

insyncro · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 11:37 am Post subject:

The layout that I feel works best does not use stock locations or stock parts.
This is where it gets fuzzy for me and selling anything.
If you want to do it your way, I suggest buying the tools and raw parts to build it up.
If you want to just turn screws and junctions, charge and go...the layout has to be what makes sense for an updated van, with updated parts.

Making hoses yourself, on site lends to the highest degree of satisfaction in my experiences.

Put what you are planning down on paper and make sure to read up on the efficency of an AC system.
It is a long run to the compressor in this system.

The amount that SC charges for the install is a good indicator of how much work is involved.
If the van has rear AC and all power features...I am charging more than they quote as the work involved is above and beyond just the unit installation under the dash.
Fitting everything in is totally possible with a plan.

kourt · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject:

In line with what insyncro is saying, I bought bulk AC hose, crimper, vacuum pump, gauge set, and everything needed to do the work myself.

I stripped every old hose out of the original system, and removed all the old AC parts (Westy with rear-mounted AC box). Selling all that stuff covered the cost of the new tools.

Establish the relative locations of all the major components--within 1 to 2 inches of their installation location... then cut and dress your hoses. If your van previously had AC, try to use as many of the OE hose routes as possible. My Westy had nice plastic clamps running the length of the driver side--I reused those.

Condenser: Nostalgic AC parallel flow condenser (see the aforementioned Small Car AC thread for sizes--I think mine was 16x22). You can take the original condenser mount hardware and tweak it to mount the new condenser. In the RedTek thread some folks mention making a good seal between the condenser and radiator to ensure efficient airflow--this makes good sense and worked for me.

Receiver/Drier: I used the Vintage Air universal r/d which is often sold with a mounting bracket and trinary switch. I mounted mine behind the passenger side headlight--there is a lot of dead space there that stays relatively clean and ensures short runs of hose. I chose to put the trinary switch on one of the r/d ports to reduce the number of crimped hose connections.

Compressor: I've got a Bostig conversion, so that's unique to my setup... but once you start looking at your compressor you need to decide where to put your service valves in the system. I kept it simple and put mine on the respective fittings connected to the compressor--in this case, using brazed-on ports at the fittings themselves (see coldhose.com for examples--look for fittings with ports). This was another tactic to reduce the number of crimped connections (and it saves money, too).

Evaporator: not much to talk about here--it fits in a very narrow tolerance of positions under the dash. You need to be prepared to deal with your radio or your ashtray being in the way. Go ahead and find a mechless radio now to make your life easier. I eliminated the ashtray and put in a couple of cool gauges (trans temp and engine oil temp) with the dual gauge pod sold at t3technique.com. If you don't have an angle grinder, go buy one--you'll need it to accurately cut off bits of metal in the dash. This is a big commitment and you must take no prisoners.

Wiring: if your van previously had rear mounted AC, you can use that front-to-back wiring run to your benefit by taking two circuits and using them as compressor wires. Since your compressor is actuated by a series of relays and switches that now live under the dashboard, you will have to find a way to get those wires front-to-back. Use the old wiring and make your life easier.

In the vein of repurposing wiring, label everything that you change in a somewhat permanent way, and keep it with the van. The next owner will thank you (or if you forget, you have a reference).

The evaporator casing drain can get in the way and snap off easily--be careful with that.

Good luck and I hope to see you on the Small Car DIY AC thread--this is a huge project, but really worth it. I live in Texas and this changed the long term viability of the Vanagon for summer trips.

kourt


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