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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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JeeJeeJason Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2014 Posts: 234 Location: Bay area, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback, "Rusty" :) |
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Thanks for the link. Again, great work.
I wish I could have a second squareback right now as I'd live to take this one off of your hands. I've always liked this color. _________________ 1968 FI Squareback |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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dkvmatt Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2016 Posts: 32 Location: Western Australia
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Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:29 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback, "Rusty" :) |
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What alternator conversion is that? _________________ 1970 Volkswagen Notchback- Bunky |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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JeeJeeJason Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2014 Posts: 234 Location: Bay area, CA
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback, "Rusty" :) |
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What fuse box is that? Looks clean and hardly can tell it's aftermarket once mounted. _________________ 1968 FI Squareback |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:25 am Post subject: Re: 66 Squareback, "Rusty" :) |
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Wow. I've ignored this thread for a while. Thought I would update with a fun little project I did last week.
I've been told, and always thought, that the stock fuse block it's a weak link in the electrical system. I decided to change mine the other day. I now have a blade style fuse block in place of the stock one. No more spinning fuses to reestablish contact our knocking out a fuse when reaching for the trunk release.
From this
To this
With this. Note: I had missed one jumper between blocks in this picture. This is only for reference. I did not realize it was wrong until I was installing and had to correct it.
Spaghetti _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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First successful trip in the books. I decided to take a 1/2 day at work and fetch my case and rotating assembly from Qualitat in Grand Prairie. Doug had me set up and ready togo in no time.
It was an eventless trip down and back. The car ran good. I was getting 27 mpg. nothing to complain about, but it wasn't "right." Seemed sluggish at low RPMs and a little hard to start when hot.
When I got home I swapped out the idle shutoff circuits for a set of regular old idle jets. I also took the time to check the timing. I thought it might have too much timing, but it was the other way around.
The car has always had a 009 in it since I got it. I was so happy with how the last engine ran with it that I decided not to swap it, even though I have a much better SVDA under the hood in the toolbox.. When we set it the other day, I was aiming for 30* at 3000 rpm / full advance. When I checked it today it was about 24* at full advance. No wonder it was not "right."
After readjusting the timing it runs a lot better in the lower RPM. Changes always seem better initially. I am going to take her for a spin once the sun goes down and see what I think. I also bumped up the idle a little bit. I had it in the 850/900 range, and it liked to flicker the oil light when warm at idle. Now I am in the 950 range and the flicker is gone.
Also learned something new today. I have always heard conflicting stories about 12V and 6V flywheel / crank compatibility. Today I got, what I believe to be, a definitive answer to the puzzle from someone with 30+ years of VW mechanic experience.
Here are pictures of the two cranks in question:
6V Crank
12V Crank (My Crank)
Because of the extra machining on a 12V crankshaft, you can use either a 6V flywheel or a 12V flywheel on a 12V Crank. Because of the lack of machining on a 6V crank, you can only use a 6V flywheel on a 6V crank. This subject seems to be cloudy for many and it was for me until today. With pictures it all make sense.
If you put a 12V flywheel on a 6V crank, the flywheel does not seat on the crank surface. I have heard this causes excess stress on the end of the crank, turns it into an egg shape and ruins the trust area of the case. Enough with school....How about some scenery from the road?
Yeah, I take pictures while driving. If you see a swerving Squareback in the DFW area, steer clear. _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Boy was that a saga. Between stripped studs, crazy allergies, leaky pushrod tubes, transmission clearancing......there was a lot of learning going on. This is going to be a long post because I believe in sharing what I have learned to help anyone that might have the same issues in the future.
One of the things I had to consider for my build is the fact that I have a 6 volt transmission in this car. The engine i took out was 6 volt flywheel and 6 volt starter. The rebuild longblock I purchased is 12 volt. Here is an obstacle.
There are a couple of things you have to consider when putting a 12 volt flywheel in a 6 volt transmission. The first being that you need to run a 12 volt starter. The 6 volt flywheel is 1/8" smaller and has fewer teeth. That gives you two options: 12 volt VW starter with a conversion bushing put into the transmission or an auto-stick starter that does not require the use of the bushing area. Here is a picture of the auto-stick starter in place, and the bushing that would need to be replaced if you were to go with a standard 12V starter.
On a normal starter, there is a shaft that is supported by the bushing. These shafts are different sizes between the 12V and 6V starters. The auto-stick starter is self-supporting. The part number for Oreilly's and Autozone are 16300. Or Bosch SR-17X. The Oreilly's option was only $40 with a lifetime warranty.
The other thing you have to consider is making room in the bell housing for the larger flywheel. Is just takes the right tools and some patience. We had the engine in and out 3 times to get it right. Next time I would not be so conservative with my grinding. Here are some pictures.
In my case, you pretty much had to make room the whole 360 degrees. Going into it I thought that there would have to be certain areas to clear. Now I know you just need to grind that shit out.
Here are the after pictures. In my case, we needed to clear a 1/16" all the way around going 1.5" deep. This gave us about .050" clearance inboard and enough room around for the flywheel to spin freely.
Before we went to put the engine in to find out where we needed to grind, I put some oil in the block. The engine was fully assembled. This was about 8:00 on Friday night after a long day at work. As we get the engine on the jack to stab it, we notice fresh, clean oil leaking everywhere. WTF!
Come to find out I had reused the pushrod tubes out of the old build without changing the rubber seals. What a horrible mistake. I had to take the whole thing apart to change out the pushrod tubes. I was not a happy camper, but I learned an important lesson. Live and learn.
I woke up early yesterday. I was pretty sure we had all of the bug worked out. I was out in the shop by 6 am. The car was running by 4 pm. I was wanting it done far earlier in the day, but you can't rush an engine install. I missed a VW only VW show about 60 miles from my house. I guess I 'll have to go next year.
Once we go it all together, I followed my parents to the lake in the car. about 5 miles into it's madden voyage, it sputtered and stopped dead. I instantly hit the ignition off and saw smoke under the dash. I feared the worse.
Luckily one of the wires from the coil to the choke fell off and grounded out. I caught it quickly and saved myself. I do have a wire to attend to, but it was an easy roadside fix. Nothing major, thank goodness.
Finally it is back on the road. Here is a video of the initial startup after a little tuning.
Link
It sounds really loud in this video, but it is really quiet. We took the time to seal up the exhaust as best we could. She is running like new. I have the idle at 900 RPM. It is tip top now.
I also found this from one of my local VW friends.....
NOS for $90. I offered him more, but he wouldn't take it. He got a good deal in the past and was more than willing to pass the good deal to me. (Thanks Kirk)
I attempted to put it on this go around, but I was worn smooth out with all of the other problems and needs. I could not get the big nuts on the upper heater tubes loose from my current exhaust. I am going to locate a clean set of those upper boxes / tubes to attach to this exhaust and put it in at a later date. I just wanted the car on the road.
I have now put about 40 miles on it. All is well. It got me to the lake and back, and it got me home today. Speaking of the lake, seeing sights like this after working our ass off for a week sure makes it nice.
Some days are better than others. Let me know if you have any questions. _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
one4house wrote: |
I'm going to put it back together with new rings and a different pair of used jugs for the 3 & 4 side. The rebuild dual port heads will go on it. If anyone needs a rebuilt long block in the near future.... |
I'd be hanging on to the old motor for a while.
Unlike the one you have in it now, you know what is inside..
It might just be personal experience,
but,
I never trust a motor that's had the case painted.
-and-
Unless you have seen it yourself, you don't know for sure. |
I'm good this time. I talked to the builder and 4 people with mileage on one if his builds. I couldn't find anyone unhappy with one of his engines and I tried.
I wasn't going to fall pray to a crappy build again. This is the second one in a row if you remember the type 4 I bought for my 70 square a while back.
Live and learn _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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ataraxia wrote: |
I learned a long time ago - Even if you see a receipt that details the work that was done on an engine rebuild and when it was done, assume it was not done properly. |
^^^^^Fixed it for you...^^^^^ _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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one4house wrote: |
I'm going to put it back together with new rings and a different pair of used jugs for the 3 & 4 side. The rebuild dual port heads will go on it. If anyone needs a rebuilt long block in the near future.... |
I'd be hanging on to the old motor for a while.
Unlike the one you have in it now, you know what is inside..
It might just be personal experience,
but,
I never trust a motor that's had the case painted.
-and-
Unless you have seen it yourself, you don't know for sure. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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ataraxia Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 4504 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I learned a long time ago - if you don't see a receipt that details the work that was done on an engine rebuild and when it was done, assume it was not done properly.
You're real lucky that it didn't seize up on you on a highway run. Nice to hear the parts can be used again though. |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
Nice to see things coming along...
Hate to see you get PO'ed, but it does happen.
And,
You had been warned, right?
It did say 'Hood Ride' on the back, so you knew what to expect.
Once you get it shaken out, it should just run and run for years. |
Definitely knew what I wss getting into. With a rebuilt long block, new clutch and new starter, I should be good for many miles to come.
At least I can tell the transmission was actually rebuilt as promised. The fluid in it looked brand new, the bell housing is ground for 12v flywheel and it wouldn't cruise the speeds that it cruises without being a freeway flyer.
EDIT: Mechanic just called. The case and crank check out believe it or not. He said the case is still standard and looks good. The crank needs a minimal amount of work with some Emery cloth, but checked out fine. He is going to throw in a new set of main, rod and cam bearings for me and call it good.
I'm going to put it back together with new rings and a different pair of used jugs for the 3 & 4 side. The rebuild dual port heads will go on it. If anyone needs a rebuilt long block in the near future.... _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7537 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Nice to see things coming along...
Hate to see you get PO'ed, but it does happen.
And,
You had been warned, right?
It did say 'Hood Ride' on the back, so you knew what to expect.
Once you get it shaken out, it should just run and run for years. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Bobnotch wrote: |
Adam, did you get your trans axle issue figured out yet? Basically where you want to grind, is at the 4 engine bolt thrus. You only need to take a little off each (mainly at the highest points of each), IF the transaxle is still a 6 volt unit. However, you might get lucky and have a 12 volt swing axle trans in the car already, that someone installed a 6 volt conversion bushing into (yes they make them to go that way too). That part doesn't really matter since you've already got the AT starter (self supporting).
The engine looks good. Sorry to hear about your exhaust stud though. That sucks, but it's also not to be unexpected. |
Bob,I checked the trans and it had already been cleared. You can tell it was ground.
I can't wait to get it in. Hopefully I get the head back today. If not, tomorrow. _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22407 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Adam, did you get your trans axle issue figured out yet? Basically where you want to grind, is at the 4 engine bolt thrus. You only need to take a little off each (mainly at the highest points of each), IF the transaxle is still a 6 volt unit. However, you might get lucky and have a 12 volt swing axle trans in the car already, that someone installed a 6 volt conversion bushing into (yes they make them to go that way too). That part doesn't really matter since you've already got the AT starter (self supporting).
The engine looks good. Sorry to hear about your exhaust stud though. That sucks, but it's also not to be unexpected. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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As far as this weekend goes, working on old cars can wear your ass out sometimes. Friday was my mom's surprise birthday party. Saturday I woke up way early and went from Sadler to DFW to austin to DFW and back to Sadler. What a long day of driving.
Today was spent troubleshooting and trying to get the engine back into my Squareback. Had it not been for a rouge exhaust stud both losing its threads and breaking off in the head, I would be driving it right now. Nothing like getting everything almost ready to put back in the car to figure out you have to tear it all down and take parts to the machine shop.
Looks like my first drive with the new engine will be delayed for a bit. I have a good relationship with a local machine shop. I'm hoping they will have some time this week to get the head back in order. I have never seen a head stud so seized in a head.
We tried double nuts, heat, lube, more heat and all that just to get it to where it broke flush. Then we drilled it out and worked for an hour with an easy out before the tip of the easy out broke off in the hole. Like I said, thank god we love these old cars or I might have turned mine into a BBQ tonight.
Now I hope to have her back on the road Wednesday. I need a day off after this weekend.
At least the rebuilt engine looked great. Here are some pictures.
As I bought it. Many thanks to Bsnean for offering this one up for sale.
Testbud build showing signs of care and quality. (Thank you Darrell)
I am swapping out heads because my tin is single port and the heads are in great shape.....except for that one exhaust stud
Rebuilt dual port heads.
This is how far I got when the head stud decided to derail things. All I had were heater boxes, exhaust, distributor and carbs. I was about a hour or two away. Now I am a day or two away. Till the next battle.
After everything is back together I will have a rebuilt engine, new clutch, new starter and great weather. It is about time to drive for hours each night in weather that doesn't make you sweat. _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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one4house Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2009 Posts: 1121 Location: Sherman Texas
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Azsilverbug wrote: |
It's begging for a 2332 with dual 48 IDA's |
Lol. To bad I just picked up a rebuilt 1600 yesterday.
With the high of a successful trip, I am now in the low of a crappy rebuild. The engine in the Square has some assembly issues that have cause the main bearings to go out. We can back up first.
After a 1000 trip to the Austin area, the car started sounding a little loud. It seemed to have a lot of crank case noise that was not there before the trip. When looking for a cause, I thought it might have been a noisy clutch or throw-out bearing. After driving it a couple more days, I decided that it was time to pull the engine and tear it down just-in-case.
It is good that I took the time to trailer it to my parents' shop and tear into it. What we found were a few different issues.
1) Oil blow by on #3 and #4 cylinders. I was told that the engine was rebuilt with new pistons and cylinders. This was not the case. #3 and #4 both show scaring and pitting from water damage. It looks like these cylinders were reused from another engine, or these were with the engine for a long time.
2) Silicone used for assembly where it should not be used. It looks like the oil pump cover plate was smeared with silicone before being put in place. The oil pump gears were also not set right and grinding into the cover. This caused silicone to get inside the engine. The case halves were also put together with silicone. Another big no-no. If a piece of silicone gets into an oil galley, that could cause major issues.
3) Main bearings installed incorrectly. #4 bearing was locked to the crank. It could not be spun by hand, and the crank was not able to be turned over when sitting in only 1/2 of the case. We finally got the bearing to turn with a pair of pliers. Looks like it was about to seize to the crank. We also found that #1 (thrust) bearing had not been indexed on the case pin. The case halves were put together with the bearing spun about a 1/4" out. This caused a high spot on the bearing, excessive wear and scaring. This was more than likely the cause for the excess metal savings on the oil drain plate.
I am going to take the engine case and parts to a reputable VW shop in Grand Prairie to see if the case is usable, make sure the crank is still usable. It breaks my heart that the engine is hurt because it ran so good, but this time I am going to fix it right.
Because of how much i liked it before, I am going to keep it 1600. The heads are fine.
Pictures are worth 1000 words. Here is some of the carnage.
This was the final factor that made me decide to pull the engine. Metal shavings in the oil are never good.
This is #1 main that was missed. Looks like the index pin may have been pushed into the case. You can also see some of the silicone that was holding the case haves together.
This is the bearing that was missed when assembled. This would have caused the rotating assembly not to spin when the case haves were being torqued.
This is the #4 bearing that was almost seized onto the crank. Looks like it may have been spinning in the bearing saddle. That was more than likely the noise I heard when the engine was at idle.
Here is one of the jugs from the 3/4 side that had scaring and water damage.
When we started and the best mechanic I know. Stan the Man.
Heads look good.
All in all, I am lucky I caught it before it seized. Let's hope the case and crank are not ruined so that I can rebuild this one and resale it. _________________ My Old 64 Field Find
My Old 66 Squareback
My Old 66 Beetle
My Old 70 Squareback |
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