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sodbuster Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004 Posts: 1082 Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
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Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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I'm in the process of going through my bus after it's engine gave up the ghost. Along with the rebuild one of the things on the "while I'm in there" list is to get my fuel gauge working again. It has always kind of worked but not too well. whenever I would fill up the gauge would read either full or a little over 3/4 of a tank. It would function ok at first, then the needle would just dive to empty with the tank at least 3/4 full.
So "while I was in there" I pulled my fuel tank to get at the sending unit. With sending unit in hand I started checking the sender out using Telfods exelent repair notes. It tested good. 3.3 ohms full 78.4 ohms empty It's testing good. Give it a bit of a shake a few light taps nothing is fazing the reading on the meter. It's solid.
I was a little confused to discover this. The sending unit seemed fine. So I forged ahead and checked the gauge. When the sending unit wire was grounded the needle on the gauge would not go much past 3/4. Now I am questioning the gauge instead of the sending unit at this point. So I decide to put it down for awhile and work on some thing else.
I ventured to have another look last night and wouldn't you know, the sending unit has now gone jankey on me and is now clearly testing bad. Upon further inspection I deemed it a prime cannadate for Telfords repair method which I will do. (I also have another I can fix as well.) But it is the guage itself that has me tapping the keys today.
Unlike the later models that have a "vibrator" included on the fuel gauge circut to drop voltage to the gauge. The early bays do not have this component. The Bently shows two wires to the fuel gauge on my '71 bus. One from the sending unit and another from the #15 terminal on the fuse block. This is a strait 12 volt tap through the ignition switch. (key'd hot.) There is nothing before the gauge to drop voltage to it. So either it is not required or is internal to the gauge I don't know which.
So here is where I am at with this. I need to effect a repair of the sending unit. Hopefully that will stop the guage from suddenly dropping off to empty. But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?
Last edited by sodbuster on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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TomWesty wrote: |
busdaddy wrote: |
Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore.
Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine. |
Yeah, that’s cool. Tension it with the winch and lock it down with the set screw. |
y'all should have been around when we went from stones to copper.... the iron guys who came along behind us didn't have a clue how that stuff worked...... _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore.
Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine. |
Yeah, that’s cool. Tension it with the winch and lock it down with the set screw. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore.
Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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Here it is disassembled. Looks like the wire to the lug broke. Simple soldier job to repair it. Do I need to use special wire or will anything work?
_________________ '58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12818 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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Gotcha, I just responded to the last post & didn't back up to see the different version. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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TDCTDI wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
Just a stab in the dark here on that sender. Does the tube need to be twisted to unlock it to slide down? It would seem odd that the constructed it in a way that the rivets would have to be removed to get the tube off. |
The tube is held on by the 7 or 8mm nut at the bottom only, once it's removed, the tube slides right off. |
Well the aluminum tubes do, but that tube looks like bakelite, maybe it's flanged at the top?
From fear of cracking something I'd drill the rivets and dissect it carefully, copper rivets are available at equine supply stores and likely marine stores too, it looks corroded enough that it could likely use a cleaning between that seam anyways. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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After reading this thread and seeing how easy the bus senders came apart I thought the same thing. I twisted and wiggled it and nothing. As you can see, the bottom plate is removed and there is nothing holding the tube at the bottom. My guess is the tube has a flange and the flange is trapped between the top cover and the ring held by the rivets. This sender is 60 years old! VDO probably changed the design to speed up production. _________________ '58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12818 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Just a stab in the dark here on that sender. Does the tube need to be twisted to unlock it to slide down? It would seem odd that the constructed it in a way that the rivets would have to be removed to get the tube off. |
The tube is held on by the 7 or 8mm nut at the bottom only, once it's removed, the tube slides right off. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13386 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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Just a stab in the dark here on that sender. Does the tube need to be twisted to unlock it to slide down? It would seem odd that the constructed it in a way that the rivets would have to be removed to get the tube off. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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Interesting, it does seem the tube is somehow attached with those rivets, I guess my next step would be to drill them out and see what's beneath. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a |
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Anyone want to take a stab at this early Ghia sender? It is not working and should read from 8-80 ohms. I took the bottom cover off and exposed the float and fine wires. The tube will not separate from the cover. I think I need to remove the rivets to get it apart. I would like to keep it because of the date stamp and I haven’t had good luck with the repops.
_________________ '58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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Ry-dog Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2003 Posts: 450 Location: Lunenburg, MA
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Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Ok. Sounds good. I used the screw method to ground the spring and no penetration with wires, just the machine screw. I may go ahead and blob a fuel resistant sealer for good measure.
Thanks for the responses. _________________ '70 Westy
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3547 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Ry-dog wrote: |
Question regarding the penetration using this method. I did use the Loctite 242 at the bolt threads and nut, but do I still need to use a fuel resistant sealer to prevent leakage if I overfill the tank some? |
If you used the screw method to ground the brass spring, and the ground wire does not penetrate the lid (as others have done), then Loctite should do the job. That's all I used on mine, and I have no fuel seepage.
On the other hand, a blob of fuel-proof sealer on the nut certainly won't hurt... _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Yes, the hole the wire passes through has to be sealed, JB weld works well for that.
The .04 OHM is an error in your meter (poor leads, internal issues, etc...) , add that figure to whatever you read to find true OHM's, you should do that every time you fire up the meter anyways. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Ry-dog Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2003 Posts: 450 Location: Lunenburg, MA
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Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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Thanks for the write up. I just finished the procedure and all tested well with the Ohm meter. Though I am not getting 0.00, I do get 0.4 and that's the best reading I get when I put the probes together. Resistance readings were between 77-83 ohms when empty and 3.1 ohms when full. Mine was from a 70 Westy and had the typical 3/4 reading when full. Soldered the tin wire and the rivet, but not the spade on top.
Question regarding the penetration using this method. I did use the Loctite 242 at the bolt threads and nut, but do I still need to use a fuel resistant sealer to prevent leakage if I overfill the tank some? _________________ '70 Westy
'14 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3547 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: Re: t2a fuel sender testing |
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Tcash wrote: |
Edited two pix. Take a look. |
Yup - that'll work. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
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dasdachshund Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010 Posts: 728 Location: Vancouver, WA USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method |
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This is a great thread, Telford.
Thanks.
-dasdachshund |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: Re: t2a fuel sender testing |
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telford dorr wrote: |
Tcash wrote: |
Telford please review and add and edit as you see necessary.
Thank you
Tcash |
I don't have direct edit authority, so I'll just pass along changes. |
Edited two pix. Take a look.
Thank you
Tcash |
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telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3547 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: t2a fuel sender testing |
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Info note, on meters in general: most meters are pretty inaccurate at reading resistance below about 10 ohms, as there are too many connections between the meter internals and the resistance being measured. These include where the probes plug into the meter and the probe tips themselves, which get dirty and oxidized. You can compensate for this a little by taking a reading with the probes touching. This represents extra series resistance in the meter, and should be subtracted from a reading taken across an unknown resistance. Even so, measuring really low resistances, like across the trannie ground strap, is pretty much hopeless, and other measurement techniques must be used. _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
Last edited by telford dorr on Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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