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Another fuel sender repair method T2a
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sloans265
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

So I rebuilt my sending unit but it appears I still have a problem with it(?) Empty the sender is reading @ 75 resistance and 2.8 resistance FULL. However when I hooked it up to the gauge for testing the gauge went straight to FULL.
I got another ďtestedĒ gauge and still same result Gauge says full when sender is at empty. HOWEVER when you move float on sender up to full you can see needle just barely move up itself..
For what itís worth I did hook it up to a beetle speedo/fuel gauge I had laying around and that gauge did respond.
Is there something Iím overlooking? The performed the only ďtestĒ I found for the gauge and it passed. Iím not going through harness, Iím using gauge/sender/battery
Thanks for any help!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
sodbuster wrote:
But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?

Mine did that for years until it finally died last year (the almost full thing, mine didn't drop randomly), after repairing the sender ground and soldering the G wire side of the circuit on both the wet and top side of the rivet it now reads full like one would expect it to. It's not just the ground connection that gets weak.
Soldering the G side is a little tricky, linger too long with the iron and you'll melt the plastic ferrule it goes through, you can rehammer the rivet to tighten it up, but bucking it in a vice and holding it as you hammer requires maximum pucker, that hair wire is always in the danger zone. An alternate fix would be run a second wire through the lid for the G and seal it just like the ground.


Looks like the path of least resistince at this point. I'm gonna let that sleeping dog of a gauge lay. Though I did take my sending unit in with me to work where I have access to better quality soldering tools and equipment.
I'll instal it and put the tank back in when I get home today. Very Happy

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By the way. That final OHM test to check the repair was sweet sweet victory. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

sodbuster wrote:
But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?

Mine did that for years until it finally died last year (the almost full thing, mine didn't drop randomly), after repairing the sender ground and soldering the G wire side of the circuit on both the wet and top side of the rivet it now reads full like one would expect it to. It's not just the ground connection that gets weak.
Soldering the G side is a little tricky, linger too long with the iron and you'll melt the plastic ferrule it goes through, you can rehammer the rivet to tighten it up, but bucking it in a vice and holding it as you hammer requires maximum pucker, that hair wire is always in the danger zone. An alternate fix would be run a second wire through the lid for the G and seal it just like the ground.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
Your tests are correct. Open circuit at the sender should read empty. Short to ground should read full. Check all of the connections in the sender circuit (including the fuse).

Early Bays have no voltage regulator. 12 volts direct to the indicator. Indicator to sender. Sender to ground.

Senders tend to either work or not work. As a sanity check, check your meter probes. Sometimes it helps to take a ScotchBrite pad to the probe tips, which get oxidized over time and give you bad readings. Short the tips together and verify that you read less than 1 ohm.


Thanks for the confermation Telford. Looks like a voltage drop test is what is next up in the process. Just to see if the gauge is getting everything it needs.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Your tests are correct. Open circuit at the sender should read empty. Short to ground should read full. Check all of the connections in the sender circuit (including the fuse).

Early Bays have no voltage regulator. 12 volts direct to the indicator. Indicator to sender. Sender to ground.

Senders tend to either work or not work. As a sanity check, check your meter probes. Sometimes it helps to take a ScotchBrite pad to the probe tips, which get oxidized over time and give you bad readings. Short the tips together and verify that you read less than 1 ohm.
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sodbuster
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

I'm in the process of going through my bus after it's engine gave up the ghost. Along with the rebuild one of the things on the "while I'm in there" list is to get my fuel gauge working again. It has always kind of worked but not too well. whenever I would fill up the gauge would read either full or a little over 3/4 of a tank. It would function ok at first, then the needle would just dive to empty with the tank at least 3/4 full.

So "while I was in there" I pulled my fuel tank to get at the sending unit. With sending unit in hand I started checking the sender out using Telfods exelent repair notes. It tested good. 3.3 ohms full 78.4 ohms empty It's testing good. Give it a bit of a shake a few light taps nothing is fazing the reading on the meter. It's solid.

I was a little confused to discover this. The sending unit seemed fine. So I forged ahead and checked the gauge. When the sending unit wire was grounded the needle on the gauge would not go much past 3/4. Now I am questioning the gauge instead of the sending unit at this point. So I decide to put it down for awhile and work on some thing else.

I ventured to have another look last night and wouldn't you know, the sending unit has now gone jankey on me and is now clearly testing bad. Upon further inspection I deemed it a prime cannadate for Telfords repair method which I will do. (I also have another I can fix as well.) But it is the guage itself that has me tapping the keys today.

Unlike the later models that have a "vibrator" included on the fuel gauge circut to drop voltage to the gauge. The early bays do not have this component. The Bently shows two wires to the fuel gauge on my '71 bus. One from the sending unit and another from the #15 terminal on the fuse block. This is a strait 12 volt tap through the ignition switch. (key'd hot.) There is nothing before the gauge to drop voltage to it. So either it is not required or is internal to the gauge I don't know which.

So here is where I am at with this. I need to effect a repair of the sending unit. Hopefully that will stop the guage from suddenly dropping off to empty. But what to do about the gauge not going all the way to full? Obviously a voltage check of the #15 wire to the gauge is in order as well as checking and cleaning any grounds I come across under the dash. if the voltage test to the guage is good what else short of replacing the gauge outright need to be checked beyond what I have already listed?


Last edited by sodbuster on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

TomWesty wrote:
busdaddy wrote:
Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore. Cool

Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine.
Yeah, thatís cool. Tension it with the winch and lock it down with the set screw.


y'all should have been around when we went from stones to copper.... the iron guys who came along behind us didn't have a clue how that stuff worked......
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore. Cool

Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine.
Yeah, thatís cool. Tension it with the winch and lock it down with the set screw.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Little tiny winches to tension the hair wire, how cool is that!? They don't make stuff like that anymore. Cool

Yes regular copper wire will do that job fine.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Here it is disassembled. Looks like the wire to the lug broke. Simple soldier job to repair it. Do I need to use special wire or will anything work?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Gotcha, I just responded to the last post & didn't back up to see the different version. Embarassed
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
Just a stab in the dark here on that sender. Does the tube need to be twisted to unlock it to slide down? It would seem odd that the constructed it in a way that the rivets would have to be removed to get the tube off.

The tube is held on by the 7 or 8mm nut at the bottom only, once it's removed, the tube slides right off.

Well the aluminum tubes do, but that tube looks like bakelite, maybe it's flanged at the top?
From fear of cracking something I'd drill the rivets and dissect it carefully, copper rivets are available at equine supply stores and likely marine stores too, it looks corroded enough that it could likely use a cleaning between that seam anyways.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

After reading this thread and seeing how easy the bus senders came apart I thought the same thing. I twisted and wiggled it and nothing. As you can see, the bottom plate is removed and there is nothing holding the tube at the bottom. My guess is the tube has a flange and the flange is trapped between the top cover and the ring held by the rivets. This sender is 60 years old! VDO probably changed the design to speed up production.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Just a stab in the dark here on that sender. Does the tube need to be twisted to unlock it to slide down? It would seem odd that the constructed it in a way that the rivets would have to be removed to get the tube off.

The tube is held on by the 7 or 8mm nut at the bottom only, once it's removed, the tube slides right off.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Just a stab in the dark here on that sender. Does the tube need to be twisted to unlock it to slide down? It would seem odd that the constructed it in a way that the rivets would have to be removed to get the tube off.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Interesting, it does seem the tube is somehow attached with those rivets, I guess my next step would be to drill them out and see what's beneath.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method T2a Reply with quote

Anyone want to take a stab at this early Ghia sender? It is not working and should read from 8-80 ohms. I took the bottom cover off and exposed the float and fine wires. The tube will not separate from the cover. I think I need to remove the rivets to get it apart. I would like to keep it because of the date stamp and I havenít had good luck with the repops.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method Reply with quote

Ok. Sounds good. I used the screw method to ground the spring and no penetration with wires, just the machine screw. I may go ahead and blob a fuel resistant sealer for good measure.

Thanks for the responses.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method Reply with quote

Ry-dog wrote:
Question regarding the penetration using this method. I did use the Loctite 242 at the bolt threads and nut, but do I still need to use a fuel resistant sealer to prevent leakage if I overfill the tank some?

If you used the screw method to ground the brass spring, and the ground wire does not penetrate the lid (as others have done), then Loctite should do the job. That's all I used on mine, and I have no fuel seepage.

On the other hand, a blob of fuel-proof sealer on the nut certainly won't hurt...
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Another fuel sender repair method Reply with quote

Yes, the hole the wire passes through has to be sealed, JB weld works well for that.
The .04 OHM is an error in your meter (poor leads, internal issues, etc...) , add that figure to whatever you read to find true OHM's, you should do that every time you fire up the meter anyways.
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