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Oil Phil-M
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Vancouver, BC
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 Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:47 pm Post subject: All horny after new steering coupler |
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I"ve spent 8 hrs getting beaten by my horn on my 72 bus. No problems before i installed a new steering coupler now the horn will either stay on or come on with the slightest deflection in the steering wheel then go off when I let go of the wheel. I've unplugged the ground to the horn button so the button mechanism is not the issue. I understand how the horn system works and have removed the steering column and disassembled to ensure the column is properly insulated. Thing is, i can make the horn relay trip even when the column is unbolted from the base and dash so its in my hand and not touching the body of the vehicle. Have also checked and added insulation to the ground wire running up from the steering box through the shaft to the top horn button to confirm its on the steering box side of the coupler . I checked the wire at the base of the colunm was not shorting anywhere. If I'm understanding things correctly the steering shaft is part of the isolated components so even if it was rubbing or touching this connection it would make no difference. The connection has a protective cover so it can"t short to the lower mount plate.
This seems like such a simple setup which is why i've kept working on it to try and find the reason for the problem despite having overdue plans to take off camping. I"m also baffled why there was no problem before I changed the coupler. THe only other thing I did at the same time was to pull the steering box to empty out oil and puting some steering grease. Is there something I'm not getting?
Going to try and get out for a couple days of camping later today so may be away from the screen for a bit. Thanks for any ideas you might have. |
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Pinetops
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2007
Posts: 2987
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Link
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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If you are absolutely convinced the tube is isolated and the shaft or some part thereof isn't making occasional contact with it then suspect the signal switch or ignition switch.
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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It's the coupler. Has too much carbon in it or something, and it's electrical resistance is low enough to set off the horn (the steering shaft is not isolated, it is HOT!). Putting stress on the coupler
evidently lessens the resistance even more. I've read a couple of posts about this problem, and if I'm not mistaken, even Genuine VW couplers can
have this problem. Seems someone forgot the part has electrical specs to meet, as well as mechanical.
What is that "horn relay" you mention? How is it wired?
The solution would be to use a differently-made coupler, or modify yours to include insulating sleeves/washers to ensure an "infinite" resistance between the two metal
flanges attached to the coupler.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: |
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please post a photo of where you have the horn wire(s) bolted to. I went thru this not too long ago. if you're using the wrong bolt, when you turn the wheel you will get it to honk as the coupler flexes
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| please post a photo of where you have the horn wire(s) bolted to. I went thru this not too long ago. if you're using the wrong bolt, when you turn the wheel you will get it to honk as the coupler flexes |
I thought only geese did that.
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thach
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 143
Location: santa barbara
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| Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| This happened to me yesterday. Every time I turned a little it would honk. In my case the two Philips head screws that bolt up under the dash were loose. I pushed the steering wheel hard forward and tightened the bolts and didn't have a problem again. |
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lintbrush
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2013
Posts: 269
Location: Campbell, California
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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My horn stopped working completely when I swapped in a new rubber coupler. You can see where the old ring connector was on the old coupler (bottom left). I put the ring connector in the same location and now I get nothing. I did't think to test it before torqing and pinning all the castle nuts. What a PITA! I think it was in the wrong spot to begin with, but assumed not change it as it has worked fine for the past few years. Lesson learned.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:06 am Post subject: |
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The wire goes on one of the 2 bolts that go through the lower fork attached to the steering box, if you have it on the upper fork no beep.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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novetti
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2004
Posts: 469
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
It's the coupler. Has too much carbon in it or something, and it's electrical resistance is low enough to set off the horn (the steering shaft is not isolated, it is HOT!). Putting stress on the coupler
evidently lessens the resistance even more. I've read a couple of posts about this problem, and if I'm not mistaken, even Genuine VW couplers can
have this problem. Seems someone forgot the part has electrical specs to meet, as well as mechanical.
What is that "horn relay" you mention? How is it wired?
The solution would be to use a differently-made coupler, or modify yours to include insulating sleeves/washers to ensure an "infinite" resistance between the two metal
flanges attached to the coupler. |
X2
Been fighting a gremlin for weeks trying to re establish the original horn circuit (deleted by PO).
The coupler is definitely shorting the ground from Steering box to the shaft.
I think I installed and removed the steering tube/shaft aprox 20 times to come up with this conclusion.
Will try a combination of insulating tape and insulating washers to fix it. |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: All horny after new steering coupler |
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| Horn All |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3899
Location: Seattle, WA
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: All horny after new steering coupler |
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the eyelet to the input shaft bolt has to go UNDER the coupler and gets smushed between the coupler and the T portion of the input dingus
if you put it on top it will rub and you will get a honk every 1/4 turn or so
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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novetti
Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2004
Posts: 469
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: All horny after new steering coupler |
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I installed some fiber washers to insulate the bolt heads,
wrapped insulating tape around the metal sleeves,
Shrink wrap around the bolt shanks
and wrapped the sheering shaft base also with tape.
Still has occasional beeps at full steering lock position (probably from the holding bolts thrusting and deforming the coupler).
Made this little video showing how a little deflection in the coupler with ground things. Note : the shaft bolts ate not touching or rubbing anything below (the other side).
Link
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