Taking Westy to A/C shop - WHAT TO PREPARE ?

[Sodo]

I'm taking my Westy (with 2.5L Subaru) to an air conditioning specialist (air conditioning is all they do). The Van has at least one leak (I think at the low-side schrader). What I've done so far is put in 2 cans of 134a. Had to "jump" the compressor for a little while, but then at the 2nd can it spun on it's own. Output cold air temp got "cooler" but not "cold". Next day, there is no more cold. Because I suspect the Schrader valve leaks, I left "the can" attached to the low side, and its sitting now at 40psi (engine off & cool in the morning).

Does anybody have suggestions what to prepare for the A/C shop, so they can provide their best diagnostics?

1) Removing the front grille and spare tire are easy.

2) Thought of cleaning the engine area. Second thoughts that maybe they prefer the dust on the hoses undisturbed.

3) Thinking of removing some Westfalia cabinetry, but it sounds like this is a big job and difficult to reassemble. Does anybody know of a thread/page describing such a disassembly?

Any other recommendations?

They charge $65 for diagnostics, then if no parts needed, it will be around $200.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Terry Kay]

Might save some time & $$$ by removing the closet area shelving--

I wouldn't do anything else.
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T.K.

[Sodo]

Terry your assistance is very much appreciated.

Does anybody recall a link or searchable buzzword that gets me to some pics how to disassemble the closet area shelving? Like to see some pics first.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[dhaavers]

Start with the overhead cabinet, finish with the side...just start removing bolts & label them as you go.

You probably don't need to remove the side cab, just enough that the tech can get to the switches & HP port..

FWIW: Best way I've found to lower the overhead cabinet - adjustable, lower or raise a little at a time, easy to work around...WIN!

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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[djkeev]

Isn't the AC stuff covered simply by a "curtain" of fabric inside the closet?

Dave
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[RBEmerson]

Based on your avatar photo, it looks as though you have a late Vanagon. So... to work on our '90, all it takes to clear away the locker, with the relays, fuses, and high pressure port, is pull the brow, round plastic thingie with a simple nail driven through it. Be nice to the plastic bit, pull it straight back (pop it with a thin knife blade in a couple places), and you can re-use the nail and the round bit won't look nasty. There are two large, short phillip head screws holding the cover for the fuses, etc. Remove them, jiggle the cover as needed, and you're done. I recommend removing the door to the locker, too (can't hurt, will help).

Past that, leave everything in place. The plumbing from the compressor to condenser (under the radiator) is in plain sight. The drier is in front of the left rear wheel and easy to see. The plumbing for the evaporator can only be gotten to by dropping the box - this is an ugly, frustrating job. BTDT- ruined the t-shirt.

Unless you know there is dye in the current charge (or what's left of it), you're done. If you know there's dye, use a UV flashlight (try the car box stores or, better, the FLAPS) to look around. A leak will show up clearly in UV light but is almost certainly invisible in daylight.

Finally, think about moving to Red Tek refrigerant. The good news is this stuff is more efficient than R-134A, tolerant of all four oil types used in A/C systems (petro-based, mineral-based, PAG, and POE - don't mix types, however), and doesn't use CFC's and their relatives. The bad news is that any shop I've had contact with doesn't want their R-134A gear contaminated (their word, not mine) with Red Tek. In short, you'll need to invest in a Harbor Freight gauge set, and at least the HF one-stage vacuum pump, and take it with you to the shop (BTDT and got a t-shirt from the shop - honest!).

After thrashing around with a first-time solo charging (had help on the first Red-Tek charging), detailed here in painful detail, it turns out to be far easier to do once you know what to do and what to look for.

Summary: Attach gauge set to low and high ports (match red to red, blue to blue), attach the yellow line to the vacuum pump. Open the red and blue valves. Start the pump (check its oil level) and walk away. For at least an hour, and two-three hours won't hurt.

Turn off the pump, and close both valves. Notice the pressures on the gauges (take a picture), make sure the valves are closed, closed, closed. Watch the gauges for a few minutes. If they come back to 0, you have a leak. Stop. Fix it.

If the gauges stay at 0, walk away for several hours. If the gauges are still the same as the picture, leave the system as is at least overnight. If you can stand it, leave them alone for a day or two. If the reading is the same (or possibly a hair off - IMHO the HF gauge valves don't seal 100%), your system is tight and you can charge it.

At this point, you need to determine if there is enough oil in your a/c system. If you know you haven't lost any oil, move on to charging the system (check the leak sites for oily deposits - if you find oil, think about removing the compressor, removing the drain plug, and draining the oil out of the compressor - no oily deposit, IMHO, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - no doubt others will disagree).

Assuming you have a late model Westy, Bentley calls 50 oz of R-12. The Red Tek equivalent is 2 1/2 cans of Red Tek. Take the can adapter, unscrew the valve (lefty loosey) fully screw the adapter onto the can, put the yellow hose on the other end, and close the can's valve (righty tighty). At this point you've popped the seal on the can. Do not remove the can valve until the can is empty (nasty, oily, vents gas - don't do it).

Keep the can upside down (valve on the bottom of the can) This matters!!

Open only the blue valve, crack the can valve until you see 60-70 PSi on the blue gauge. Start the engine, turn the A/C on, and turn the fans full on. If you've got enough gas in the system, the compressor clutch should kick in (pressure switches inhibit the clutch if there isn't enough refrigerant). If not, shut off the A/C and engine, get the pressure back up to 60-70 PSI, and try again. At some point, the compressor will kick in. Leave the engine running, and dump in more Red Tek. The gauge will go up and slowly come down. A minute or two of fast idle (~1500) will speed the process. The red gauge will slowly increase, as the blue gauge drops. Do not rush filling the system. You don't want to slam the compressor with a big hit of liquid Red Tek (the can, upside down, is feeding liquid, not gas).

Repeat this process until the first can is empty (no change in blue pressure with the can valve wide open). Close the blue valve, close the can valve. Remove the yellow hose;watch for some venting and oil drips. Unscrew the can valve, watching for some minor venting of oil and gas.

Repeat this process for can #2.

Can #3 is somewhat trickier. You want to get the blue pressure to about 32-38 PSI at idle. Add Red Tek, use fast idle for two minutes, and add more Red Tek as needed. By now you should see the air from the compressor hit at at least 20 F below ambient air temperature (~35-40F down when done). Repeat this process until you hit a constant 32-38 PSI. Minor needle wiggles are OK. Big swings are not.

Once you hit the goal, close the blue and red valves, close the can valve, remove the gauge set, and test drive the vehicle with the A/C full on, and the fan full on. If you have about 35-40F below the present air temp. You're done.

ADDED: With the can valve closed, of course the yellow hose comes off the can valve. Again, watch for dripping oil and some venting. Leave can valve in place, and the remaining refrigerant will store in the can without a problem.

If leaks do show up again, Red Tek has dye in it. You do not need to add dye to the system to find a leak.
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[whynotvw]

I just had my whole A/C system re-done in my 2.5 suby on my syncro westy. I thought it was just a o ring that might need to be replaced. But it turned out I need a new compressor. ( don't buy rebuilt they don't last, buy original from dealer, cost twice as much but it will last 5 times longer then re-built ones) and I needed to change the hose that ran from back to the front. The total cost came out to. $1445.

I didn't have to remove or do anything. If they are competent they should be able to figure out whats wrong with it. Once again if you need a compressor buy brand new from dealer.

Good luck.

[0to60in6min]

you may want to clean the A/C coils using this product

http://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-Safe-Air-Conditioner...599017-_-x

spray it on, wait and flush with water

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_em9lm69HQ

[kamzcab86]

Most definitely, at the very least, remove the shelf and panel in the rear cabinet. Photo for visual learners:

I speak from experience: Do not assume the shop will remove that stuff on their own.
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~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子

[dhaavers]

[Sodo]

[RBEmerson]

Um, removing stuff poses its own problems (breakage, lost screws, etc. painful etc.). Why take apart stuff that, it turns out, has nothing to do with the problem? Open up the cabinet, because the HP fitting is hidden away in there and the tech may burn time looking for it, but past that... KISS.

ADDED: Would you pull the vehicle apart to "help" with a state required veicle safety inspection? Again... KISS
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Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change, and wine to accept the things I can't change.

[Sodo]

I assume that the Aircond shop will be much better able to inspect and search for leaks if they can SEE the components. And perhaps give the BEST possible diagnosis. They will use the dye method.

Letting an Aircond shop take apart cabinets on my "collector vehicle" is not in my M.O.

For a state inspection I'd go " out of sight = out of mind ".

Another problem has inserted itself into my concerns though. My tranny has to come out (today), so I can't drive it to the Air cond shop (for awhile). But I will certainly revisit this thread for the great advice offerred. Perhaps do some of it myself.

Very much appreciated the great suggestion that my van may have UV dye in it and I ought to shine a UV light on it myself.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb