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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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 Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject: My woods rail/bug out build. |
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Finally got around to taking some pics and making a build post.
Some of this I posted before but here it is in one place with pics.
A about a year ago I was visiting my father in law who lives in another state and I saw a sandrail under a tarp in his backyard, I asked him about it and he said it was a project he started about five years ago and then lost interest in and never finished. It was basically just a lower frame with suspension, engine and transmission mounted but nothing else. No steering wheel, pedals, brakes, seats, instruments shocks mounts or any electrical. If you hot wired the engine with jumper leads you could get it to start but that was about it. He had rebuilt the engine and the oil in it was still light yellow and clear, maybe half an hour run time since the rebuild.
He then blew my mind by telling me that he would really like to see it running and that if he thought I would finish it that he would give it to me. Of course I said yes and spent the weekend trying to convince him that I was qualified to finish such a project.
The TRUTH however is that even though I am mechanically inclined I have never remotely attempted something on this scale and my car repair background was merely normal repairs on my own vehicles with nothing more advanced than replacing a water pump. I knew NOTHING at all about VW's, sandrails or air cooled engines. I'd never even seen one up close before or so much as ridden in a beetle.
But despite this I played my cards right and at the end of the weekend I was driving home towing a sandrail frame and the entire back end of my truck was filled with parts and pieces that he had collected over the years, most of them where unidentifiable to me at that time. When I got home I literally started sorting them into boxes that I labeled: Electrical, Bolts, Gaskets, Brakes?, and , Stuff That Looks its Probably Important and finally, Stuff I'm pretty sure doesn't go with this vehicle.
After that I hit the books and the internet and have probably spent 200-300 hours researching sandrails and VW engines. Its been slow since in the beginning I didn't even know where to start and without an original bug to look at I had no idea how certain things where set up originally let along how to set them up for a rail. There was also the issue that I wasn't just starting from scratch but trying to make heads or tails of a huge amount of random parts with no instructions or labels. I was more or less trying to re-invent whole systems from scratch while also doing major fabrication like building floors and a roll cage and where I live there doesn't seem to be anybody who knows anything about these types of vehicles so its been all on my own, except of course for lurking on this forum.
Long story short, its a year later, I know way more about cars than I used to, I'm a poorer dirtier man, and I have a vehicle that I'm trying to get finished off so I can register/title it with the goal of fully street legal at some point.
In the real world part of what I do is help come up with polices and planning for fire departments trying to acquire/build new equipment and strategies for emergency response. I'm also very into prepping and one of things that often comes up in design is Philosophy of Use which general boils down to "What is it that you want to do with it?"
For this rail I basically want a go anywhere do anything small vehicle that is simple enough that I can fix every part of it and tough enough to take a beating in the collapsing society I think we are headed for.
Eventually I am planning on building a second engine designed to run off a wood gasifier which I think would be a perfect fit for this type of engine, but until I get it worked out and running clean I don't want to tar up a perfectly good engine with a badly tuned gasifier.
This is still very much a work in progress, on the top of my list for things to add is a merged and muffled exhaust system and camo canvas coverings for all the parts that are currently just expanded sheet metal.
Also planned but not built yet are more storage areas (a back deck over the engine) a third seat for my unborn kid above and behind the two front seats, gun mounts, flamethower (the weapon, not the exhaust, its already built but not mounted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZXyvfIdXqw) spare tire holder, larger gas tank, on board SCBA high pressure air tank, more lights, bells.
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Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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GoMopar440
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2015
Posts: 491
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Subbed. 
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Homemade rail for street & off road: BJ front beam (bent), IRS rear (boxed/maybe bent), stock T1 DP 1600, 009, 34PICT-3 (soon to be dual 40HPMXs), 4-1 glass pack exh, T3 brakes (F disk, R drum & Dual MC), Bug trans (002, 5 rib going in soon).
Link to my rail (re)build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629493 |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5408
Location: Holland, MI
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blacktruck
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2005
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
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neat
is a street legal flamethrower a thing in Montana? 
good on ya for tackling this,front brakes are easy to put together.
wish I had room to make something like this |
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ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 2647
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:32 am Post subject: |
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the gasifier sounds interesting. I want to see this flamethrower idea. We used to call em' MadMax but I guess now it's BugOuts? That's my kind of thinking though. I tend to think more along the Spy Hunter lines with my countermeasures.
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Brian H.
I may not know everything,but I will try to help if I can
OrangeCrushER Berrien Warrior 2.4L Quad4
LAZY MARY 1970 Baja 1835cc |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12848
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Aerindel, nice build! I had a couple of thoughts, if you are still running the fenders you might want to beef up the front brace to the front fenders, if you bump into a tree you might bend it back into the tire. Also you need to anchor the brake line to the trailing arm in the rear to avoid vibration fatigue (I also hope that connection is a flared connector not a compression fitting). |
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GoMopar440
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2015
Posts: 491
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:34 am Post subject: |
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What kind of gun(s) are you thinking of mounting on it? I'm planning on designing and building one or more to put on my rail eventually. I'm just trying to decide if I want to make it for my AR, AK, shotgun or pistol(s). Being a gunsmith I've collected a few to pick from ( http://s326.photobucket.com/user/GoMopar440/library/Guns ) over the years. 
Maybe build it to hold a few of them?  Whichever style I go for I want it to be fairly form fitted, sealable and lockable to keep the crud and prying eyes out. Shoot me a PM if you want some help with the mount. Of course if you can build a flamethrower maybe I should be asking you for help with mine. LOL
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Homemade rail for street & off road: BJ front beam (bent), IRS rear (boxed/maybe bent), stock T1 DP 1600, 009, 34PICT-3 (soon to be dual 40HPMXs), 4-1 glass pack exh, T3 brakes (F disk, R drum & Dual MC), Bug trans (002, 5 rib going in soon).
Link to my rail (re)build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629493 |
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earthquake
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008
Posts: 3984
Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Put a ring mount above the passenger seat and mount a M60 or M240! Or if you can get it, a Mark 19 40mm grenade launcher! [my personal favorite]
:snipersmile: -----------------------------------------------------------------  [PINK mist here]
Casey
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74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| blacktruck wrote: |
neat
is a street legal flamethrower a thing in Montana?
good on ya for tackling this,front brakes are easy to put together.
wish I had room to make something like this |
Flamethrowers are 48 state legal 
The main difficulty I see with front brakes is that I would have to get a whole new pedal assembly as mine only has one master cylinder for brakes, which is going to make the whole thing rather pricey and time consuming to get everything working again with all new controls.
I don't really have the room for this either. Last summer it just sat out in the open next to my little 10x16 metal shop. Over the winter I made tarp covered lean-to of the side of the shop to put it under.
| Quote: |
| What kind of gun(s) are you thinking of mounting on it? I'm planning on designing and building one or more to put on my rail eventually |
I was thinking of adding a spade grip trigger and a dual snail mag to one of my AR's, kinda like this:
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Maybe build it to hold a few of them? Question Whichever style I go for I want it to be fairly form fitted, sealable and lockable to keep the crud and prying eyes out
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Yeah, your right about what it should be like, I still haven't really figured out the best way to do it. Ideas are welcome.
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| Aerindel, nice build! I had a couple of thoughts, if you are still running the fenders you might want to beef up the front brace to the front fenders, if you bump into a tree you might bend it back into the tire. |
Yeah, that has occurred to me, although the front bumper that the fenders is attached to is pretty tough, its a cut down section of 2x4x0.2" steel. It could still be bent but it would take a fairly decent impact to do it. Not really sure how to brace it since the tire is behind it.
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| Also you need to anchor the brake line to the trailing arm in the rear to avoid vibration fatigue (I also hope that connection is a flared connector not a compression fitting). |
Your right, I do, its on my list. One of those things that I put together just to see if it works and then haven't gotten to finishing. And yes, its all brake line fittings, either american inverted flare or bubble flares for the VW brakes.
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| the gasifier sounds interesting. I want to see this flamethrower idea. We used to call em' MadMax but I guess now it's BugOuts? That's my kind of thinking though. I tend to think more along the Spy Hunter lines with my countermeasures. |
Yeah, its a technology I am really interested in since I live in the woods and in theory could have a an unlimited local fuel supply. It should work well considering that during WWII VW made bugs that came equipped with a gasifier from the factory and small, high RPM engines are well suited for conversion. I've built a static gasifier and was able to run an old lawn mower engine off it in shop conditions but thats a ways away from something you can actually get in and drive.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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blacktruck
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2005
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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cool |
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flemgunner
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2014
Posts: 39
Location: Scott La
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| If ya need the pintle mounts Ive got a ton of em for sale, male and female. |
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Axitech
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2011
Posts: 1265
Location: Bucks County, Pa
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I just saw this thread. That is a really cool way to cover the passenger area, expanded metal with a remove able covering. I might consider removing my sheet metal and goin that route with vinyl reinforced with a backing of some sort.
About your brakes, please consider getting fronts on there. If you cut a rear line, or it rusts through, or it fails for any reason, you are instantly without brakes! A dual circuit master cylinder runs less than 50 bucks. You'll still be able to use the cutting brakes (if they are legal for on-road use in your state, they aren't in Pa) and you'll know your passengers are safe.
As to the suggestion of bracing your front fenders: the minimum coverage allowed here in Pa is 15 degrees to the front of the tire and 90 degrees behind the tire. 15 degrees is just barely forward of the top of the tire. I ran a 1/2" steel rod up the front of the shock tower, then bent it 90 degrees and used it as my front mount on the fenders. It sounds weak, but I weigh just under 300 and can sit on them and they do not flex. Doing that will also give you a very nice approach angle.
Let me know if I can take a picture that might help you come up with a way to get what you want. Just remember, it is your project. Don't let anyone talk you into building their idea of the end result. Build YOUR rail.
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He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson |
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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| About your brakes, please consider getting fronts on there. If you cut a rear line, or it rusts through, or it fails for any reason, you are instantly without brakes! A dual circuit master cylinder runs less than 50 bucks. You'll still be able to use the cutting brakes (if they are legal for on-road use in your state, they aren't in Pa) and you'll know your passengers are safe. |
Interesting. The problem I have is that I have one of those all in one assemblies with one cylinder for the clutch and one for the brake and a throttle pedal all sharing the same pivot pin.
I think this is the pedal assembly that came with my buggy, I'm not sure, it has no markings, it was just one of the things that came in my big box o dune buggy parts.
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac799450.html
It seems like I would have to replace the whole works which is kinda pricey for me when you add in the cost of front brake discs/drums etc.
Is there a way to salvage some of this without completely re-doing my foot controls?
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Just use this master cylinder, which is the exact same as what your pedal assembly has now, but instead of 5/8" bore, it's 7/8" bore.
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac799512.html
Stock master cylinder is 22mm, which is a little bit bigger than 7/8".
22mm = 0.866"
7/8" = 0.875" = more than enough master cylinder for front and rear brakes.
So just replace the present one and add a tee to to split the front and rear lines next to the master cylinder, and another tee at the crossmember to split left and right.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
ust use this master cylinder, which is the exact same as what your pedal assembly has now, but instead of 5/8" bore, it's 7/8" bore.
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac799512.html
Stock master cylinder is 22mm, which is a little bit bigger than 7/8".
22mm = 0.866"
7/8" = 0.875" = more than enough master cylinder for front and rear brakes.
So just replace the present one and add a tee to to split the front and rear lines next to the master cylinder, and another tee at the crossmember to split left and right.
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Thats pretty interesting, I didn't see those. But how do you adjust brake bias with one master cylinder? I only have about 150lbs of weight on my front wheels so if I just run a T won't I instantly lock my front wheels every time I step on the brake?
Would this work? http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac611790.html
Posted this in another thread but I just got replaced those obnoxious dual cannons with a tri-mil quiet pack. So far I'm really happy. Much more fun to drive without being deafened and drivability is up, doesn't stall as easily and no poping going dow hills.
Today I also replaced a lower ball joint that had about 1/2 of play in it. Boy..was that a not fun job. Luckily I do have a 20 ton press but trying to get the arm positioned right so that I could actually bring all that force to bear was a pain in the ass. Eventually got it out and put in a new one. I hope I don't have to do that again anytime soon. I really dislike press fitted parts.
Next major project is a hot air intake feeding off the new exhaust system. From what I have read they really are what is needed to make a progressive carb run right and I plan on running this a lot in the winter as that is really when I have the most time to play.
Any suggestions on how much intake heat I need? I don't want to over do it.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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GoMopar440
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2015
Posts: 491
Location: Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Since you don't have the factory heat boxes or exhaust you won't have the exhaust moving through the pipe as originally intended. One suggestion I got was to make sure to drill one side bigger than the other. That helps to keep the exhaust moving through the heat pipe rather than just fighting itself and pulsing back and forth. On my dual cannons I was planning on drilling one side 1/4" and the other side 1/2".
Like the new exhaust BTW. That's the exact one I'm thinking of getting when I'm ready to replace the cannons.
_________________
Homemade rail for street & off road: BJ front beam (bent), IRS rear (boxed/maybe bent), stock T1 DP 1600, 009, 34PICT-3 (soon to be dual 40HPMXs), 4-1 glass pack exh, T3 brakes (F disk, R drum & Dual MC), Bug trans (002, 5 rib going in soon).
Link to my rail (re)build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629493 |
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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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My plan when I add a hot air intake is to move one end of the heat risers to the accumulator, but now I'm actually thinking that adding intake heat may be enough to compensate for the pulsing back and forth issue.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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2RL
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2010
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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That setup works quite well. In all my playing around with them, I really don't think you can have too much heat with a progressive.
I have basically the setup you have there with the addition of the heat riser tubes and a warm air pickup tube ( I have an industrial air filter setup and use the dump valve opening on the bottom of it to direct warm air into the canister from off of the cylinders on one side ) . The setup works great with no real signs of causing a problem and I've ran it in everything from single didget to well over 100° with no I'll effects. |
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ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 2647
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
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Aerindel
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2015
Posts: 459
Location: Western Montana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Strange, the only time mine ever iced on me it was about 30 degrees outside and my choke was stuck partially closed....and I my heat risers where not drilled yet. Fixing the choke fixed the icing.
_________________
Homemade woods/street, bug out rail. IRS, Balljoint front end. 1967 1600cc DP, Weber 32/36 progressive, tri-mil quiet pack. Rear only cutting brakes.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=630046 |
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