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IMPI Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2006 Posts: 35 Location: South Africa
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: |
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There is a porsche speedster here in south africa that also suffered from burning completely. The owner had it stripped down placed in a huge oven and heat treated the whole body to regain tensile strength. Where there is a will there is a way
Armand |
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Martin Southwell Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2010 Posts: 986 Location: Bath, England
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:38 pm Post subject: Metal Heat Treatments |
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I was beginning to think that nobody had even considered the issue of metal degradation due to fire damage with this vehicle and so i'm pleased to see the above posting highlighting the issue.
As is well documented, in house, and similar fires, particularly with accelerants (eg Petrol in fuel tanks) involved, temperatures typically reach around 1,000C http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101116122857.htm and as steel melts at around 1370C http://education.jlab.org/qa/meltingpoint_01.html the body on this car has not been far off melting point!
The steel will have been annealed (softened) by the heat, and reheating in itself will not necessarily restore former strength. Have a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel This information refers to 'fresh' steel, and not aged, age hardened steel bodywork, subjected to intense temperatures.
If such information is made available (which I doubt) it will be interesting to see what metal treatment(s), if any, this car undergoes in due course. |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4094
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, but if this were any run of the mill split it would have already been scrapped. This car is too significant to scrap. This will be a museum car so probably won't see much if any time on the road. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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cory464 Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2010 Posts: 659 Location: kokomo in
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Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:57 am Post subject: |
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given the past history with the restoration teams this car will get the best restoration possible. I hope they are as generous with the details as they were with #6. I also anticipate that this car will be back on the road when done. |
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My57Oval Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 624
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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After the folks finish with that prototype Beetle, there are plenty more that need repairs too!
Actually, these cars, like most modern cars, are made out of tin foil compared to old 003 38. That's why there is nothing left to rebuild with these cars. Of course the heat must have been intense at this fire.
Rob |
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fifty8 Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2003 Posts: 442 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Metal Heat Treatments |
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Martin Southwell wrote: |
I was beginning to think that nobody had even considered the issue of metal degradation due to fire damage with this vehicle and so i'm pleased to see the above posting highlighting the issue.
The steel will have been annealed (softened) by the heat, and reheating in itself will not necessarily restore former strength. Have a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel This information refers to 'fresh' steel, and not aged, age hardened steel bodywork, subjected to intense temperatures.
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One thing I've wondered, were the early engines made of magnesium? I know that would have burned considerably hotter if so and would have done much more damage and I didn't notice an engine picture above. Guessing the fire would have been contained before the magnesium would have ignited, if these were made of it??? Just curious. _________________ 2000 Golf TDi
1981 Scirocco S
1980 Scirocco S (track car) project
1951 Chevy Bel Air (project 'Mom's first car')
1948 Ford F-1 (project)
searching for May 7, 1969 Karmann Ghia (149 860 0??) |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10196 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Metal Heat Treatments |
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fifty8 wrote: |
Martin Southwell wrote: |
I was beginning to think that nobody had even considered the issue of metal degradation due to fire damage with this vehicle and so i'm pleased to see the above posting highlighting the issue.
The steel will have been annealed (softened) by the heat, and reheating in itself will not necessarily restore former strength. Have a look at this: http://www.wikihow.com/Harden-Steel This information refers to 'fresh' steel, and not aged, age hardened steel bodywork, subjected to intense temperatures.
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One thing I've wondered, were the early engines made of magnesium? I know that would have burned considerably hotter if so and would have done much more damage and I didn't notice an engine picture above. Guessing the fire would have been contained before the magnesium would have ignited, if these were made of it??? Just curious. |
I think the early engines has more aluminum in them, so it might not have ignited like a normal engine case burning, but I'm sure it still melted into a slab. I had a building fire once and the engine case burned, transmission burned, brass burned, aluminum burned. The one thing I'll never forget is the smell, I feel bad for anyone attempting to restore this car. |
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ash-jk Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2015 Posts: 1 Location: London
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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I've been reading about this with great interest and after spending two evenings reading the 38/06 thread from beginning to end (yes it took that long!), I was wondering if there were any updates on this restoration? |
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beetlekey Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2004 Posts: 633 Location: MINDEN
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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ash-jk wrote: |
I've been reading about this with great interest and after spending two evenings reading the 38/06 thread from beginning to end (yes it took that long!), I was wondering if there were any updates on this restoration? |
The updates will come, just wait. _________________ Hebmüller 581
1953 oval Typ 11G metalblue
1966 1300
If you are searching for vintage keys, look here:
https://www.facebook.com/WagenmanufakturHO |
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Kjell Roar Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2008 Posts: 1326 Location: Norway
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Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Blue Baron wrote: |
Undis wrote: |
This is a VW39 series, one of 14 built by Dr Porsche in 1939. This is the only survivor that almost did not survive because of the devastating fire which destroyed a sizable auto collection. The car was found in 1954 and ended up in the collection of the Raffay family in Hamburg. It was restored to the best ability of the day and shown at several Volkswagen events through the years. It was last seen in 1991 and was locked away in the private collection ever since. |
Old photo of Raffay VW
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As a couriosity, my car is the 30. 56 year model, produced the day before # 1.000.000. The story says that these first 56-year models was used at Wolfburg to bring people around during the weekend. And the sellers then went home with their new 56. year model at the end of the weekend.
And mine went to Raffay's in Hamburg. So maybe it was around when the picture was taken
Raffay was one of the two earliest dealers for Volkswagen. _________________ I got a historic car, every scratch got a history...
My car, Aug. 4th, 1955 / an early 56: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=610438 |
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tisius Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011 Posts: 1570 Location: Rotterdam,NL (+Chicago,IL)
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:30 am Post subject: |
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No one yet
I see the lowering job has already been done, nice, that saves them some time .
Things can only get better from here! _________________ drive it like you just robbed the bank
you don't have to be crazy to be into VW's, but it sure helps!!
.... if it ain't dutch, it ain't much! |
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Undis Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006 Posts: 1396 Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:58 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Let the game begin!!!!!
Work is about to start on the resto of the ex Raffay, now Prototyp Museum car.
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fossil Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2011 Posts: 36 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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In the exhibition of the PROTOTYP museum there is a chassis labelled "VW 39". I wonder whether this chassis in the future will be part of a complete car. And I would love to learn something about the history of this chassis.
And on a post standing right adjacent to the wonderful VW 60 K 10 is a VW 38 - engine. On my last visit (last week) I noticed that parts were missing from that engine (cylinders, pistons, ...). Seems the work is really in progress.
I love that museum! |
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doublecabmel Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2010 Posts: 131
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:37 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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I don't know which would be worst, rust or fire? Either way, This sure is an amazing story |
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schwim Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2008 Posts: 271 Location: Western NC, USA
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Rich's 50 Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2004 Posts: 10781 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Looking forward to it |
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sgmalt46 Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2005 Posts: 1296 Location: south san francisco
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Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:46 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Undis wrote: |
Let the game begin!!!!!
Work is about to start on the resto of the ex Raffay, now Prototyp Museum car.
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i see that is christian driving. who is the other guy ? they are looking like partners in crime . cant wait. _________________ 55 deluxe 23 window bus
64 crew cab
55 rag top beetle
66 beetle
71 square back (sold) ! good luck with it Henry!
46 beetle 552nd royal army service corps CCG |
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vwhelmot Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 617 Location: united kingdom
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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I see there has been progress on FB |
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Undis Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006 Posts: 1396 Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:24 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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This just in.
The car will need lots of love and I'm sure it will get it!
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D-train Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2007 Posts: 1455
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Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:48 am Post subject: Re: A VW 39 heading for restoration after a museum fire |
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Another tough job been saved, keep the pics comin Undis!
generally speaking, not specifically, have they noticed much difference between the 39 and 38? _________________ shiny paint doesnt make it worth any more |
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